I don’t want DD to be moved out of her class.

[AvaHavanna]

Hello all.
Please bear with me as this is causing a lot of anxiety and arguments in my house. I have name changed as I will have to speak about somebody else’s child in this post.
When DD started school she became friends with a child with SN, I’ll call him X. We got on well with his parents and would go on play dates with them and DD seemed happy in their friendship.
They have remained in the same class and are now in KS2. However A is completely obsessed with DD. This seemed to flare up At the end of last year. He freaks out if he cannot sit with her in class however hurts her continually in class. The whole class is evacuated often because of his behaviour, such as throwing scissors. Often DD and a friend have to do their lessons in the next classroom as A is becoming aggressive towards her.
This all came to a head last week when he pinned DD against the wall in the playground. The headmistress had to pull him off. She is now terrified to go to school.
Her teacher has suggested she moves into another class permanently, however DD has a lovely group of friends in her class and I would ideally like her to stay with them. She also adores her teacher who has helped her with her confidence massively.
This is causing so much stress and rows with her DF as he thinks we should just move her. AIBU?
Sorry for the massive post didn’t want to drip feed!

IMHO your daughter definitely should not be moved, the boy is still going to act the same wether she is moved or not. Special needs or not, he is a danger to the children and staff. I don’t think it’s a good idea to let your daughter have time off school although I can fully understand why you do, but keeping her off is going to cause different problems eg missing out on learning, being with her friends and possibly attracting people about her attendance. Hopefully this will be sorted out soon as again, as others have said this little boy is disrupting absolutely everyone including staff. It’s very difficult but maybe he shouldn’t be in this school if he isn’t coping.

I’d go to the school and put your thoughts to the head as the boy should be removed sen or not

I agree with you. The issue isn’t going to be resolved by moving your daughter classrooms, he’ll behave the same to another child and he’ll still see her in the playground. They need to focus on getting this other child support.

We are no longer on good terms with the parents. When I try to speak to his mum on the playground she ignores me.

Its not fair on your daughter at all and i think you should dig your heels in. But also It stops the boy getting the support he needs to learn not to do this. The younger he gets proper help the better as he is dangerous as it it.

To me it's obvious the boy should move. Why has the teacher suggested it this way round? If they don't have proper support for boy then I wonder if they want to move your daughter so the boys stays with the teacher most able to help/deal/control him?

I've just seen you update. Has the other Mum made a complaint that suggests your daughter is at fault?

It doesn’t help your daughter with playground violence - it may even exacerbate that because if it becomes the only time that child can reach her. At last in the classroom there is close supervision of the sort that they cannot guarantee outside (whatever they may say now).
This is probably what you should focus on mainly.
Moving A would probably be quite disruptive for him so moving your DD is an easier solution for them, but it fails both children ultimately. The school need to do more for A and that's not making an easy solution that would make your DD feel punished for something that isn't of her making.

I wouldn't waste time on this either because while you're trying to decide they will just move her since you haven't said anything. Make a call today and ask for an appointment. Say you don't think it's fair of them to punish dd for being a victim of violence whatever the circumstances.

ATM DD and A alternate staying in and “doing jobs” so they should never be on the play ground at the same time since the incident. DD likes helping her teacher so I haven’t queried this.

Echoing others here - absolutely don't allow moving DD to be seen as the "easy" option. You can be strongly assertive, quick, quick to escalate and so on. DD's needs matter too. She has been going through trauma at school (that's not too strong a word to use), repeatedly and she needs the stability and security of her friends and teacher (and a safe environment) in order to not be further traumatized and too recover and develop well. I'd be asking the school for additional support for her in terms of counselling or whatever program they have (unless that's in a different class!).

Lots of people are taking abut the school not providing adequately for the SEN child's needs, which is right and OP does need to phrase things like that, but I think it's also fair and right to point out that the school are not meeting DD's needs, and will be further compounding this if they move her. More broadly, without adequately managing his behaviour the school is not meeting the (very basic) needs of the whole entire rest of his class, who need to have a safe environment to learn in that isn't disrupted so badly so often. Multiple whole class evacuations ffs and they think moving your DD will solve anything?! They can take a hike!!

The school are acting in a very cowardly manner in this situation.

Irrespective of the reasons, your daughter is being bullied, threatened, and assaulted and the school are making her pay for that as they haven't got the skills or resources to provide support to the perpetrator.

You may end up having to go higher than the headteacher with this one.

We were (are?) going through a similar situation at the moment.

Currently, new structures have been put in place do that my child and the other child are never alone together and this seems to be working so far.

It took us a lot of meetings and trial and error to get to this point though. Have meetings with school, make sure you are in regular contact. Every single time she is reluctant to go in, let them know (I prefer email to verbal as then you have a record).

Don't be afraid of being a pain, or being labelled as 'that parent'. On the thread I started about this someone pointed out that us complaining actually helps the school when they are applying for additional funding for 1:1 staff etc.

I think of it like that now - that we are all on the same side but they know I won't let my child suffer (move classes, have solo lunches, etc) because of the situation.

I have a child with ASD.

I wouldn’t think your dd should be moved in this situation.
I think the school are failing in their duty of care to both children.

The child with SEN needs 1:1 support. Your dd shouldn’t be kept in at playtime even if she does enjoy helping her teacher with jobs. It is the responsibility of the school to support the child with SEN so that he is able to cope, and to keep your dd safe. If they are unable to do this, the school isn’t a suitable placement for him.

If I were the parent of the child with SEN I would support him bring moved as he is unable to cope in the situation he is in. UNLESS your dd is somehow winding him up. I’m not saying that is the case, just that it can be the case that another child targets my son and deliberate winds him up in order to cause a meltdown. In those circumstances I wouldn’t think that moving my child was the solution.

No way on earth should your poor DD be moved and I say that as a parent that has 2DC that are autistic and I've worked with children with different types of SEN's.

That child really doesn't sound like he's coping at that school and he should be moved for everyone's sakes including himself.

Speak to the school and tell them removing your DD from that class will only succeed in making your DD feel even worse and what's to say moving her will make this all any better being as he's attacked your DD in the playground,he could still hurt her at playtime and if they removed your DD from the class there's every chance he'll start hurting someone else so they'd have disrupted your DD,her friends in her original class and the other children in the new class that she'd be being moved into,they're seriouslly willing to disrupt at least 20 children(depending on class sizes)for the sake of 1 child,that's not right and the school must know that,I think you and your DH need to go to the school and start making some noise.

"Sounds like this child will continue his behaviour in the future and nothing will be done about it. I dread to think how this will play out once he hits puberty and has been taught that nothing will happen to him, only to the children he obsessively molests. Parents dont seem up to the job.
Keep your daughter safe at home if she begs it. Forcing her to go to school without effective safeguarding in place will damage her. She INBU , and the molesting boy should be moved."

I think it's a step too far to describe the boy as 'molesting' - he has SN and no determination has been made about his motivation. It may well be that he is fixated on their friendship and doesn't have an appropriate way of expressing that, which is not acceptable, but 'molesting' is a sinister word that is not warranted for a primary school child in the majority of cases, and more likely that not one with SN.

Additionally, you are in no place to say whether the parents are "up for the job". Have you parented a child with SN? It's flipping difficult. They are likely doing their best. They are most likely devastated and trying to work out what to do. It would be ideal if they could face talking to the OP, I hope that comes in time, but perhaps they feel it's inappropriate to deal with it outside of school and they should let school deal with it, which is often MN advice, incidentally. They are probably scared for their DS. Who are you to decide they are not "up for the job"? Who are you do decide who or what this child will become?

I would protect my daughter from this child. It is for the school to focus on his needs without sacrificing my daughter’s wellbeing. Apparently it had not yet been possible for this school to manage both, Lord forbid they should in any way upset or offend the boy or his most excellently communicative parents.

You need to speak to the school. Set up a planned meeting so they know that you expect action rather than a quick chat at the end of school.

Key points for your conversation - moving DD may seem like an easy solution but......has the effect of punishing the victim which sends the wrong message to her, to the bully, to the rest of the school population. What is the school’s bullying policy? This is not in keeping with the school’s bullying policy (I promise it won’t be). What can they do to ensure the safety of DD and other students, specifically, what extra supervision can they provide for this purpose? Are they perhaps treating this incident differently because of the other student’s special needs (the answer is probably yes) and is it appropriate and fair to the victim to do that?

I agree your daughter should be made to suffer for the school's abject failure to meet this other child's needs. He clearly needs more support and provision than he is getting.

Sorry that should say should not be made to suffer

It's a difficult situation all round. No your daughter shouldn't have to be moved
It's not easy nowadays for schools to get funding for sen children or even echp. You can't do anything about the boy but you can go to the school asking what measures are being put in place to protect your daughter - if approach from safety angle. Id also.put on writing about her school refusal and impact on mental health.

This is not the fault of the child. It's out shambolic system of supporting children with sen and complete lack of funding.

That would be so unfair on your daughter, the school clearly haven't thought this through at all.
As others have said if you can't resolve it with the Head, escalate it to the Governors, LEA.
The child with SEN needs more support or to be moved into another class.
Good luck.

harebellmeadow don’t be an arse.

You have no idea what this child’s parents are doing to manage his behaviour. You have no idea why they aren’t speaking to the OP. You have no idea what they have been told about the situation by the school or their son. And it doesn’t sound like you have any idea what it’s like to have a child who is struggling to the level that theirs is. So ODFOD.

He isn’t going to learn from consequences or have zany understanding of the impact of his actions without proper support. You have zero understanding.

IF it would solve the problem AND I liked the other teacher well enough, I’d do it. I feel children who have SN (can) struggle enough at school without being further disrupted by a move. DD would soon make other friends & can still play with the others. There would be no need for her to feel punished if it was explained it was to stop her getting hurt.

However, it’s NOT going to solve the problem. Either he will transfer his attachment to another child or become even more obsessed with finding her in the playground.

The school needs to use his funding on a 1:1 - if it’s not enough then they need to apply for more or find it elsewhere OR the parents have to accept it’s not the right setting for him.

It’s really difficult, but moving DD isn’t going to help, so say no.