To think DC should have learnt more.....

[Lavenderee]

My oldest DC has been having weekly piano lessons for 3 years. They have a piano at home, they asked to learn it, every support was given to them. Their piano teacher was specifically selected to support their special need, the location, duration, atmosphere and pace were all carefully thought out. 3 years, every week, except the six weeks holiday, Christmas and Easter. So, 42 weeks a year, 126 lessons and 2 hrs practice at home each week.

DC has not made any progress past what they learnt in the first couple of months. DC cannot remember where to put their hands. Can’t remember which notes are where. DC cannot read music. DC cannot play a single tune without error, and certainly has not progressed to chords or anything else. Think “Morning has broken” in simple single note version. That’s the stage, after 3 years, and it can’t be done without error or with proper speed and rhythm. When I told the piano teacher that DC was not going to be continuing as they felt bored by it, she said “Well, they’re simply not getting it. No matter which way you try. They just don’t get it. I’ve never known anything like it.”

Has anyone else had such an experience? I can’t play an instrument so i don’t know, all I know is that all the other kids who haven’t even been going as long have passed their grade ones and twos and are looking at three, but DC is nowhere near.

Sorry, just realised I didn’t specify the special need. DC has “Emotional Disorder with Anxiety and Depression and some social communication features.”
I think DC has atypical autism, not this mouthful of beating about the bush.

Piano is hard. Really hard. (I say this as someone who has grade 8 in a different instrument).

It requires a great deal of co ordination (which I don’t have). Also you don’t get to play in any fun groups. School windbands and the like.

Maybe try something easier if they want to learn. Ukuele/guitar they wouldn’t need to read music. Or clarinet?

I have tried for all of my adult like to learn piano and I cannot get my hands todo it.

Do you think maybe the piano teacher should have mentioned this before? At some point in the last three years, that my DC just wasn’t getting on with it? She just always says “good lesson” and now she tells me this when I cancel the lessons

Maybe it's just not a skill for him. This sounds like me and driving! Maybe because of his additional needs the tutor hasn't wanted to raise the progress concerns. Does he enjoy playing piano/The lessons? If so let him continue. If he doesn't let him quit. Hopefully you're doing this for his benefit not yours.

She should have absolutely raised it much, much earlier!

We always get feedback, needs more practice, doing well, tantrum in lesson etc... our teacher had recognised Dc2 can’t focus for 30mins so does 10mins then a break to work on rhythm or something, then another 10mins.
Mine have been doing piano for 2 years and I can see the progress. I went to Grade 5 (and failed) but I was very mechanical and didn’t have much heart in it. Important to find an instrument your child likes I think.
It’s also ok if they don’t learn one at all. Some people aren’t musical in that way. Maybe an art class might suit or dance?

Yes, Piano teacher should have said! Personally I'd suggest one of the free Piano tutorial apps, and give that 3 months and see if you get anywhere? I think the Hoffman Academy one was the one that looked best when I was looking, and it was free, optional books etc cost money. I think this learning style would suit some people who don't get on with one to one directed learning.

Yes that was fairly shit of her. If they’ve made no progress in 3 years.

After 6 months they should have asked how much practice was going on? And after a year they should have started to mention it wasn’t going to plan and perhaps a different instrument might suit better.

If your child was practising for two hours every day, why did you not realise they were struggling?? It seems...unlikely that this is coming as a surprise to you.

Piano teacher should have said something way before now - SIBU

Dd has been learning for 3 years (although started on violin 3 years before piano) and average improvement is grade one after a year then a grade a year (alternating with violin exams)

Her teacher has a little pupil concert twice a year with about 30 kids and I have never known anyone at that stage after 3 years

Do DC enjoy/tolerate/hate it?

If they are musical, maybe another instrument would be good to try?

DC practicing for two hours a week, not a day. It’s a digital piano, so they have headphones in. DC gets very anxious about being judged by siblings, so would not “perform” as such. There is a record function on the recently upgraded piano, which is how I discovered it wasn’t what I would expect after three years. I knew they were slower and it wasn’t clicking as fast as with other students, but I wasn’t aware of quite how much until the teacher said that. I don’t play, so I’m not sure.

And yes, of course learning the piano was for them, not me. DC wanted to learn piano. So I booked lessons and, when DC enjoyed them, bought a piano. After hearing the recorded practice, I asked how they felt piano was going and they said they’re bored of it and said it’s too complicated and they don’t really want to do it anymore. And that was the feedback from the teacher, when it’s always been “yeah, really good lesson, some great playing from DC today.”

@jackstini, well, this is what I thought. Grade one after a year or so and then maybe up by a grade a year. But DC is nowhere near capable of a grade one exam, and when I asked about exams about a year ago, was told all children go at their own pace and they don’t even need to do the exams if they’re just playing for pleasure. Which is what DC was doing. But, to be told there’s no progress..... surely something should have been said? Surely that’s a red flag? I don’t think it can be that the teacher is shit because she’s got lots of pupils that sail through their grading.

Yes, I would say it's very slow. I do wonder whether your dc need more support in their practice time though. It took some support from me to help pur dd1 get the idea of how to break up phrases and practice tricky bits.

Re knowing where the fingers go, definitely ask the teacher to concentrate to this first as it is impossible to practice on your own without understanding it.

My OH teaches instrumental music, and I used to. You do sometimes get students who just never seem to get it. I was not a particularly good teacher which is why I don't do it any more, but my OH is, he's very good, and recently he's put a student through grade 1 who again has been learning for three years, he only put student in because parents demanded. Thankfully the student passed but he has come home several times feeling he is banging his head against a wall because no matter what he does the student seems to get worse not better. It's probably not the student's fault, and it's probably not the teacher's fault, some people are just a mismatch for the instrument.

Also, I was 'hothoused' when it comes to instruments growing up and shut in a room and told to practise for an hour each day. My practice was not very worthwhile as I didn't know how, some teachers don't teach practice skills. And from experience a lot of students don't listen even when the techniques are bullet-pointed in their notebook!

Some people just are never going to grasp certain skills no matter how much time is dedicated to it.

My best friend has been “learning” to drive forever! Lesson after lesson, practice after practice but she was telling me recently that her instructor is getting somewhat frustrated with her and she didn’t know why. I probed her and she said it was about gear changes and when to do it. I was actually driving her home when she was telling me this so I told her to say when she thought I should change up a gear based on the sound of the car and/or speed. She couldn’t tell me, literally hadn’t a clue. Couldn’t grasp what I was talking about at all. Even when the car was screaming for a gear change she couldn’t identify it.

This girl has two degrees and a masters BUT she also has anxiety/depression so I’m now wondering if it’s related and she just panicks and can’t concentrate and just wants it over with?

Sorry I totally went off on a tangent then. Suffice to say the piano teacher should have said if your DC wasn’t progressing at all.

piano is HARD. I played recorder in primary school and violin to grade 2. At 11, I picked up my sisters flute and taught myself to play from the book she had. After a few months of that and 2 terms of lessons, I passed grade 2. In my mid 20s, unemployed, I bought a keyboard and spent a large amount of time trying to teach myself the piano using much the same method I’d used at 11 to teach myself the flute. I got no where. When I ad a friend who taughtmusic, she said piano is comparatively harder than many other instruments, partly due to the 2 lines of music and having the 2 hands doing different things.

My point is, grade 1 after a year was probably never gonna happen, esp if is their first instrument. How old is your child?

If they don’t enjoy it, stop. Perhaps consider a different instrument.

But I agree the teacher perhaps should have said something earlier.

Yes, piano is hard as far as instruments go. My DD is a natural musician and does have a flair for it, but still needs to practice.

Are they musical at all? As in reading music, good rhythm etc? If so, I hear the ukulele is easy. Could try that.

Give it up. I’m not saying you are, but some parents just keep taking kids for lessons when they’re only scraping a pass, if that, which is maybe a waste of money and time.

I meant to add that, yes, co-ordination is a factor and don’t a lot of kids with autism lack that? Also, the best musicians put a “feel” into the music that others just can’t do.

Did you sit in on practice? The teacher should absolutely have said something, but especially with beginners, they absolutely need practice supervision, and you can’t do that if they are playing with headphones on. And it’s quality of practice that matters, not just quantity.

Does your DC get any enjoyment out of it? If not then I would cut your losses and try something else. Otherwise, there are instrument teachers out there that specialise with SN pupils, if your current teacher doesn’t really understand them.

Our of interest how is the 2 hours a week practice split up OP?

I understand about the ear phones and not wanting to perform in from of siblings ect, but i think the fact that you haven't listened to him play at all in 3 years has contributed to this situation. Did you ever chat with the teacher in more depth about exams, expectations ect.? Was the teacher aware that you never hear his practice sessions?

Piano is hard. Really hard. (I say this as someone who has grade 8 in a different instrument). It requires a great deal of co ordination (which I don’t have). Also you don’t get to play in any fun groups. School windbands and the like. I have tried for all of my adult like to learn piano and I cannot get my hands todo it.

I think learning any instrument as an adult is much harder? I also think a benefit of playing the piano is that you don't need to join bands, the ability to play polyphonically (is that the right word) means it can be played standalone whereas other instruments are more limited on their own. I think this makes the piano ideal for children who are happy in their own company. Of course, this relies on making progress and being able to play with both hands etc.

Do you think maybe the piano teacher should have mentioned this before? At some point in the last three years, that my DC just wasn’t getting on with it?
Yes, definitely.

I think sometimes cut your losses - I play three instruments to grade 8/diploma level. I thought dd would as well - she has been having violin lessons for the last couple of years - for rote learning she is fine- she can read music and her sound is good but I have realised she is like her dad - she can't hear it - a b or a b flat are the same to her and rhythm is lost in how she wants it to sound rather than how it should be. We are going to leave it - it isn't enjoyable which is what it should be and use her time for something else.

I agree - piano is hard! But I think there's a mix of BU here. If you've never really heard DC play and piano teacher hasn't really fed back any info (does DC have a practise diary? Music with bits annotated on it by the teacher?) then you aren't to know where they are with it. I can't say I'd be happy paying out the amount that individual music lessons cost only to find after 3 years there's been zero progress, but I would also have involved myself in it a lot more.

Sounds like the piano teacher might have been on the defensive as well, if you've said 'DC thinks it's boring' I'm not surprised she replied with 'they don't get it'. She's probably giving a reason as to why they're still doing the same piece after such a long time.

Does DC not enjoy it because it's harder than they first imagined?

I suggest you start listening to your DS practice.

The practice sessions are split up into half hour slots. DC is home educated so we take quite a relaxed approach to anything extra curricular. I would never force DC to practice or shut them away with their instruments. I have heard DC on the piano many times a week for 3 years, but when it comes to practicing, they put their headphones on and say “alright, I’m practicing now.” If ever I listened to it, which happens when other DC are not there, it sounded the same as when DC would be “messing about” on the piano beforehand and I assumed that they were embarrassed to perform for me, since the piano teacher (who does not allow spectators in her lessons) was always so full of praise. I asked her many times if DC, who is 12, was learning and developing their skill and was always told that yes, they were. DC has always had the books for practice and always appears to be reading the music, but apparently they can’t do this at all. Neither can I so I don’t know how to help with that. I assumed the teacher I paid was teaching them. I feel that perhaps they were mimicking what they thought they should be doing.

I’m not sure music lessons count as extra curricular, pretty sure music is curricular...
misses the point of the thread

So DC has a half an hour lesson a week, can they play anything that’s mostly correct? Not perfection, just recognisable and reasonably accurate? Or if you put one of their practice pieces in front of them would they just make it up? I’m really surprised the teacher didn’t give you any kind of progress report at any point, don’t they chat to you about what’s been covered?

I’m wondering whether your DC doesn’t feel like they’re any good, and that’s not really going to help them improve. If it was me I’d want to give up too. Maybe there’s another instrument they want to learn, and their beginnings in piano could give them a bit of a leg up and boost their confidence.