To think DC should have learnt more.....

[Lavenderee]

My oldest DC has been having weekly piano lessons for 3 years. They have a piano at home, they asked to learn it, every support was given to them. Their piano teacher was specifically selected to support their special need, the location, duration, atmosphere and pace were all carefully thought out. 3 years, every week, except the six weeks holiday, Christmas and Easter. So, 42 weeks a year, 126 lessons and 2 hrs practice at home each week.

DC has not made any progress past what they learnt in the first couple of months. DC cannot remember where to put their hands. Can’t remember which notes are where. DC cannot read music. DC cannot play a single tune without error, and certainly has not progressed to chords or anything else. Think “Morning has broken” in simple single note version. That’s the stage, after 3 years, and it can’t be done without error or with proper speed and rhythm. When I told the piano teacher that DC was not going to be continuing as they felt bored by it, she said “Well, they’re simply not getting it. No matter which way you try. They just don’t get it. I’ve never known anything like it.”

Has anyone else had such an experience? I can’t play an instrument so i don’t know, all I know is that all the other kids who haven’t even been going as long have passed their grade ones and twos and are looking at three, but DC is nowhere near.

@Zelda, no I’ve never been given a progress report and never been told what’s being covered. I never had piano or any lessons in any instrument as a child, so have utterly no point of reference. You don’t meet any of the other parents, as lessons are at the teachers house and you generally wait outside in the car as you’re not allowed in. If I put a piece of music in front of DC they would not know what it was. They can play a couple of tunes somewhat recognisably, yes, but not at the right tempo or without error. Practice pieces, no, DC would just make it up.

I think DC doesn’t want to do it because they’re frustrated and bored and because they know they just don’t get it. And it’s ok, not all brains work that way. But I think the teacher should have told me. I’ve sent her an email to ask when it was she realised my DC wasn’t progressing and why she never thought to mention it to me, since she has “never known anything like it”

And as DC is home educated, we don’t have to follow a curriculum like they do in school, so we have core subjects, a project and then we pursue things that interest DC and build on those. So music isn’t something DC has to do.

I hope the piano teacher has some answers, I'd be really disappointed to have never ever heard feedback or know what DC was learning, especially considering how carefully you selected the teacher and environment. I'm quite surprised you didn't ask, especially given the time and money commitment involved, even if you didn't learn as a child surely you were curious to know what DC was learning?

I saw in your pp that your DC was home educated, I was just a bit surprised you thought of music as something outside the realms of the main curriculum, I'd have thought it was pretty important at a reasonably young age regardless of whether a child is home or formally educated. For children with special needs it can do wonders. I hope you and your DC find an alternative, if that's what you'd like.

I have a degree in music and used to teach piano on the side.

Sounds like it is worth a try with another teacher who may have another approach.

Grades are ok for some kids but not the be all and end all.

He might fare better with a Suzuki approach (playing by ear not with music).

Music of whatever form and however well executed is beneficial for developing brains and mood.

I would try another approach before giving up entirely.

I honestly can’t get past you forking out nearly 3 grand over 3years and never sitting n on a lesson, or having a look at his practice book or asking for a report or asking him to show you what he’s been doing...........

Did you have notebooks saying what had been covered and what had to worked on for next lesson?

I can play several instruments (saxaphone, trumpet, tenor horn, trombone, cornet, flute, clarinet). Saxophone is my main. I’ve done Grade 5 but no further as I don’t like theory. However I’m competent on grade 8 pieces. So I can playing fairly well.

Then I moved to the piano. I just can not get both hands playing diffferent things at the same time! I can play some pieces, but then gave up as I had to get rid of my piano when we moved. Seriously- it’s not an easy instrument!

I am with the others here. Music is hard and more so for a child with SN.

• how’s his daily coordination?
• what’s their fine motor skills like?
• how are they doing academically? Are they meeting age related targets?
• you said they were autistic. Anything else like dyslexia or dyspraxia which would make a two handed instrument plus reading music v v v difficult?

We don’t have a sense of who your child is at all.
Then compound this with the fact that you have had zero input for three years which I find astonishing. I am entirely non musical (can’t read a more) but my son is and I have had to learn some basics to support him a little and supervise practice. Your teacher may have assumed that you wanted this as a recreational outlet for enjoyment and didn’t want to point out that he simply couldn’t do this physically because he didn’t want to dampen their enthusiasm. It can’t have been v rewarding for the teacher as well to do the same stuff for 3 years so kudos to some extent for persevering.

*not daily. I have no idea where that came from.

The teacher should definitely have said something before now. That's appalling.

Does your ds want to play? If he does, I'd get a different teacher but I'd have a conversation with them beforehand about his additional needs so that they are aware and can adjust their methods.

I disagree that piano is inherently difficult - the notes are all there in front of you and it's quite logical really. Also coordination difficulties do not necessarily carry on into instrumental playing - I've known kids who will drop the pencil case they're carrying when they pick up a pen but they can play the violin.

Agree that supervising practice is important - you don't need to hear him if he doesn't want you to, but you can go through his practice checklist (he should have one, in a notebook, this is essential) and tick off what he's done when he tells you he's done it. You may find that if you sit with him while doing this that he'll eventually be more open about letting you hear him, as a natural progression.

Techniques that are useful for children who struggle include:

• teacher making a recording of the target tune, he listens while at the piano and plays say one of the notes whenever it crops up. That way he gets to understand how music is put together, that it involves different notes and pitches, and that you have to listen, while his active role is limited and therefore less stressful. Gradually build up to more complex input until he's playing the thing himself.

• playing the higher/lower game. This is a piece of piss for teachers and you can do it yourself at home because even if you don't play the piano you can see whether a note is physically high up or low down. You just play two random notes and ask if the second is higher or lower. Creates an understanding of pitch.

• wrong note. Play a tune he knows with one wrong note and get him to shout 'wrong note' when he hears it, then sing the right one. They love this because they're correcting the stupid teacher who's made a mistake. Again, you're building up the idea in their head that they do actually know what they're doing and are in charge

• a 'magic bag' for practice with all the tasks she wants him to focus on that week plus other random things like 'run round the room shouting 'Freddie' on bits of paper. Pull out a slip, do the task, move onto the next one. Basically, feed the baby in small bits and have a sweetener with it.

Honestly, there is so much you can do with kids. It makes me cross to hear of teachers just opening up a book, saying 'play this and then go home and play it'. Get a better teacher. Or just do all of the above yourself. This poor child has been putting all of this effort into a wonderful instrument. Time for him to do so in a way that rewards him.

It's just not his thing so stop the lessons. Let him tinker around on the piano though, you might find he learns to play a bit by ear without the pressure of having to learn to read music. It's amazing how often that happens and they can equally do it with electronic keyboards.

Bless him.

Hmmm, I agree that the teacher should have keot you informed about the progress. However I don't expect a child to get all subjects. It sounds like your DC just isn't musical at all. Which is fine. The question now is if they enjoy the lessons, if yes keep them, or if not they might rather try a new hobby.

My DD has had guitar and singing lessons for two years now and hasn't made a lot of progress. Some DC don't. Her school insists each child chooses an instrument and they have an hour private and two hours group per week.

She's just not that way inclined I think.

Of course the teacher should have discussed it with you!

I’m interested to hear what she says in response to your email.

It's not good that teacher didn't discuss with you. But your home setup is very unusual I think. Most children at least practice where a parent can hear if not actually with a parent. So teacher may have assumed you knew and were happy for DC to play about not really progress.

You don't actually know if DC has ever practised the things teacher asked them to practise? I'm interested to know what their messing about at piano entails, perhaps just enjoying messing about is enough for this particular child at this stage. Though strongly suspect with you helping practice, learning alongside them as you need to, they could probably learn more.

What does DC want at this point?

Ukulele is easy to begin playing IF they can remember where to put their hands, read music, read tab, read chord boxes, have the dexterity and dedication to make the changes, have a sense of rhythm, timing and tempo, dynamics and pitch. And do it largely without looking at either hand.

In other words, it's not easy for everybody and I'm a bit sick of people saying it's a doddle.

I've only met two people who had a complete absence of ability in terms of doing and learning. It was very sad, but there was literally nothing to be achieved from repeatedly having to explain the concept of 1-2-3-4 and that notes 'here' are higher in pitch than notes 'here'. No SEN, just no ability.

People tend to feel quite wounded if you say you don't want to teach them anymore, though.

I’m not trying to drip feed. I try not to share too much as it’s my child’s information and I don’t want to be too outing. My child loves to sing and can do so fairly well, so I’m not sure it’s an inability to do anything musical. 3 years ago, they were struggling socially at school and wanted to learn an instrument but didn’t want to be in a group to do it. Piano was suggested and my child wanted to do this. They had recently gone onto medication to control high anxiety, so searching for the right teacher was important. I wasn’t getting anywhere for a while. Not many teachers were willing to take an anxious pupil on medication. The head at the school my child was at had a friend who was a piano teacher with lots of experience of kids with additional needs. I met with her and she explained her approach and that my child would be able to take the exams with her teaching method, but the idea was to build confidence and create calm by helping them to read and understand music and to play for pleasure. She didn’t set “homework” but simply required that her students practice. No particular piece. Just practice. It sounded ideal. I discussed with her my concerns that my child had a different condition to the one diagnosed and she said that issues are often apparent in 1-1 teaching and she would definitely keep me informed of anything she noticed that was beyond what the diagnosis said. We had no practice diary, no interim reports or end of year assessment or performances or anything like that. And I didn’t know I was supposed to, either. It was given out to be more of a therapy method of teaching, and I never sit in on my child’s therapy sessions either, it’s not permitted. So it didn’t seem off to me that it wasn’t encouraged that my husband or I sit in on these either. We have more than one DC and far more than one activity to get to, so more often it is DH taking DC to piano lessons and waiting outside and he who gets the “everything’s great, wonderful lesson” comments. When I take my child, I do get the same. And I didn’t just tell the teacher that DC says they’re bored by it, I said they’ve reached a point where they are sure they don’t want to continue learning piano and so we are going to be taking a break at the very least and waiting to see what they want to try next. DC says they’re bored by it, so I suspect the time has come to move on to something else. I thanked them for being an excellent tutor and for understanding and accepting their needs. I had the comment from them in response.

@Zelda- Home education is a development that’s happened in our lives in the last year, and while music isn’t “core” curriculum in school, and these sessions were always extra curricular, music is a part of our learning, but not necessarily learning an instrument. Some of our other lessons we attend are also musical in focus, but learning an instrument isn’t essential, it’s extra. That’s what I mean. Not that music has no place.

I'm not sure how this is the teachers fault - for three years, you have been happily sending your child for the lessons. The teacher will have assumed that you MUST HAVE REALISED the level your child was at and the progress they were making. But they and you seemed happy to continue the lessons.

Think of it this way :

"I'm a piano teacher and have a student with additional needs. I've been teaching them for three years and in that time, they've never really "got it" - they struggle to read music and have never progressed beyond a few simple melodies. But they seemed very happy to continue the lessons, practise in the week, etc. I assumed they were playing for pleasure and were enjoying the process.

The other week the mother contacted me - she is APPALLED at the "lack of progress" her child has made and has decided the lessons are a waste of time. She thinks it is somehow my fault and that I "should have told her" that her child's progress was so slow. I don't mind if they cancel the lessons but AIBU to think that she must have had some idea of her child's level and that her demanding explanations and apologies from me is unreasonable?"

"My child loves to sing"

Could you switch to singing lessons? And maybe look for a children's/teens choir? It may suit your dc much better as requires no manual dexterity (obviously!) and can be done by ear a lot. It's also a way of learning to read music if dc wants. And lots of social opportunities - choirs - into adult life.

It may be that as the teacher was aware that dc has anxiety she didn't want to add to that by making demands. And may well not have clocked that your dc was practising on a digital piano with headphones, so assumed that you could hear how dc was getting on.

Piano isn't for everyone, although in some ways it's easier to start with than strings as you don't have to create the sound - just bang the key and the note will sound roughly ok! Unlike the violin.....

or, how about trying out brass - maybe trumpet? Very different skills from piano, and again lots of social opportunities.

It's worth having a couple of tries at finding the right instrument because it can be so rewarding to find the right one - though I realise it doesn't come cheap! Some shops may hire or hire purchase instruments, which can be a good idea if you want to try out something very expensive.

@MitziK - re: ukulele - I'm so sick of hearing it's easy too! It's not 'easy'. Just because it's small and only has four strings, doesn't mean it's easy!

OP, it does sound like an usual situation, I was picturing similar to what my DS has, he learns violin and has done for about 18 months. We've always been given info, the diary notes down what he needs to practise, we bought the books we were required to and the teacher communicates regularly. He's just done grade 1, now he's looking at grade 2 pieces but I expect it'll be a while off because these things take time. If you wanted a music therapy approach (sounds perfect) where the teacher worked in a low-pressure way and outcome wasn't that important, then it might not be improvement that has been the focus, it might be the joy of the sound and the sharing of something musical. In which case, measurable improvement may not have happened as much as you'd necessarily expect, but your DC may still have got a lot out of the lessons.

There are dozens of interests DD could follow, I'd just move on.

It all depends what one is looking for in education. I can imagine a child that makes really, really slow progress with the piano compared to other children but still enjoys the experience. From what you say about how the lessons were set up, if I were the teacher I would assume these lessons were all about enjoying the experience not progressing or passing exams. An anxious child should not be burdened with unnecessary expectations to pass piano exams. If your DC never told the teacher he was bored, and appeared to be enjoying the lessons, it makes sense that the teacher continued.

All your original goals for these lessons seem to have been for your DC to have a positive experience, it seems a bit unfair to the teacher to make it all about progression and exams.

I'm someone who did the whole 'piano lessons' for years as a kid without anything to show for it. I'm also married to someone who has been a professional musician with barely a lesson in childhood. I just wouldn't do structured lessons / exams with kids - with very few exceptions I honestly think it's a short cut to making them hate it!. My lot have had access to instruments and been encouraged to pick out tunes they like and we've got them a bit of support along the way (e.g. a couple of guitar/piano/drum lessons here and there). My eldest son started 'proper' lessons in his teens and within 2 or 3 year had reached grade 8 (skipping various ones) on one instrument he'd been exposed to in this way for years. He now teaches his younger siblings and their friends. His goal is to get them to play their favourite song almost straight away and this tends to spark their interest and enthusiasm.

OP I’ve just started having piano lessons as an older adult. I had lessons as a child and wasn’t ahem, naturally talented.

However now I’ve made more progress in three weeks than your son has made in three years. That’s crazy. He says he doesn’t want to continue so let him stop. Childhood is all about trying things, not all of them stick.

If he’s anxious it’s almost definitely holding him back. I’m trying to relearn sight reading and am mostly ok UNTIL I’m sitting with my lovely teacher and suddenly my brain goes blank!

Just let him stop and praise him for his perseverance. Maybe he will continue to tinker with the piano. Perhaps he’d like to join a community choir intead?