To feel despair about holocaust deniers

[bananaramaspyjamas]

How shocking that 1 in 20 denies the holocaust. I'm quite horrified by that figure and find it really troubling.

If my maths is correct that is about 2·5 million people in the UK and even taking those of a middle Eastern heritage from that number whose hatred of Israel is such that they deny the Holocaust, which I suspect is not everyone, that still leaves a lot of other people.

The OP is not unreasonable to be shocked. To my knowledge I have never met a Holocaust denier, but if I am ever unfortunate enough to do so, would ask them how they thought the four ancestors of mine who went to Auschwitz died.

That does surprise me. I could understand 5% of Americans denying it, probably higher percentage would make sense. But the brits? Thought we were more intelligent than that.

Oh my goodness, I didn't know that was a thing?? How can you deny it?! I'm shocked.

Quite simply you deny it because you hate Jews/Israel.

I have a terrible fear that in decades to come, people will talk of the holocaust in terms of whether they believe in it or not....rather than accepting it as a fact.

Isn't holocaust denial an offence?

I am really not surprised at any of this. I studied history at university and have a always been interested in this era and have travelled to many countries and visited the Jewish Ghettos etc there and have been appalled at some of the behaviours I have seen.

We were at the Holocaust memorial in Berlin the year before last and we were shocked at a bunch of tourists climbing up onto the structures to take selfies and also a bunch of young teenagers playing tag / chasing around it, shrieking very loudly and barreling into other people visiting the monument. A security guard came in the end and stopped them.

The Jewish Ghetto in Venice has a kiosk with armed soldiers in it constantly. I could not believe my eyes when I first saw that about 15 years ago but I saw it again when I went back last year.

This artist has made a whole project around people taking selfies in these places.

petapixel.com/2017/01/21/artist-shames-disrespectful-holocaust-memorial-tourists-using-photoshop/

I don't feel despair yet.

But for the future I have concern.

If I could meet one of these people in real life I'd love to have a chat about their beliefs!

It was a small sample size and I'd like to know more about the survey / see a wider survey done.
General historical knowledge is low amongst a lot of people so I am hesitant to give credence to the headlines here.

I have met, and had a rather heated conversation with a holocaust denier, who was adamant the 'real' figure in terms of deaths was around three hundred thousand (like that would make it ok then )

She was taught all this by her Father, who was quite frankly a crackpot. She got pretty uncomfortable when I explained I have Russian Jewish heritage and had ancestors who were slaughtered in the holocaust, as in shot in the head in front of a mass grave.

I was still shocked by the 1 in 20 figure though.

Having discussed it with her, I can only conclude they are people with deep paranoia and a tendency to lean towards conspiracy theories.

Ok I've read the entire thread and links.

It's incredible.

Yes there is a link between a willingness to believe flat earth stuff and this in people I've noticed online.

My son has also told me recently he was working along side an openly anti-Semitic young guy. Which shocked him so much he confided in me (he's at an age where I know nothing so I get grunts mostly.) This young man was not brought up or educated in the UK.

I think I found it hard to believe as an accurate survey as I just haven't met UK people in my 50 odd years who are (openly) anti Semitic let alone deniers. I didnt think I was in a bubble. It seems I am.

Bitout I believe it is an offence in France.

It could be a generational thing.

I'm quite affected by the Holocaust but the teens of today study the 'facts'. They are so removed from it. To them it's very much history, the past, taught in schools in history classes.

A few years ago my nephew went to visit Auschwitz on a school trip. I was convinced he'd come home moved, understanding of the horror. But no, it was just a place of historical interest he said as he ate his supper.

This next generation have a missing link and will possibly be minimising it.

The generation after them could very well start to deny altogether.

I'm quite affected by the Holocaust but the teens of today study the 'facts'. They are so removed from it. To them it's very much history, the past, taught in schools in history classes.

I disagree.

Holocaust deniers and anti semites I have met are of an age that it could have been their parents/grandparents who were murdered.

Your nephews response certainly isn't typical of teenagers that I know (of which there are numerous) who have seen the camps.

I was really quite encouraged that it was only 5%.

That does surprise me. I could understand 5% of Americans denying it, probably higher percentage would make sense. But the brits? Thought we were more intelligent than that.

How ironic that, on a thread lamenting the presence of xenophobia, as well as displaying the dangers of xenophobia, we find a post that in itself contains veiled hints of xenophobia, and the supposed superiority of one over another.

Ironic . . . and depressing . . .

"Holocaust deniers and anti semites I have met are of an age that it could have been their parents/grandparents who were murdered."

Yup - it's definitely not limited to new generations. My parents were born in the early 50s and they consistently expressed vile opinions about Jews when I was a child/teenager (not Holocaust denial but "it wouldn't have happened if they weren't such an unpleasant race" etc). When I mentioned in passing a girl in my class whose surname was an anglicised version of a common Jewish name, my mother sniggered and said "well, she would want to keep that quiet!" . I imagine my mother still holds those views but she went quiet on the subject after I called her out as a teenager (which apparently made me a mean and judgemental person, according to her). When I mentioned to my father that I was studying a module on the Holocaust at university, his reaction was "oh for God's sake, who cares? Nobody likes a Jew!".

Sorry, the above is pretty unpleasant reading. I just thought it was worth mentioning because I often come across the misconception that anti-Semitism doesn't exist in this country, or that it's exclusively something brought in by recent immigrants, or that it's just a misunderstanding because young people don't get taught history anymore. But, in my experience, there have always been "nice" educated people like my parents who not only held those views, but were confident that their friends and peers would agree with them.

Powerful bankers and industrialists funded that grubby little episode of history

Worse still, so did the catholic church and the Red Cross, of all people - at least, in regard to helping high level nazis to escape before capture

Quite how they justified this to themselves remains a mystery

"Quite how they justified this to themselves remains a mystery "

It was an agreement. We've had to deal with consequences of Operation Paperclip re abuse, endless wars etc ever since. Anyone who doesn't agree with their racial purity program is in terrible danger again.

Glen Yeadon : The Nazi Hydra in America