To feel despair about holocaust deniers

[bananaramaspyjamas]

How shocking that 1 in 20 denies the holocaust. I'm quite horrified by that figure and find it really troubling.

Maybe the idiots would rather not believe it

Some, maybe - for others the motive's probably more sinister than that. Even if they discount survivors' oral accounts, what about the film footage taken by Dimbleby, Hitchcock and the like? Who do they think these people were, FGS ... paid extras, filmed at some sort of slimming camp??

WARNING - SEARING FOOTAGE FOLLOWS And I hope MN don't don't remove it, because if we won't open our eyes and ears we'll never learn

It was a survey of 2000 people probably bored people looking to make swag bucks or something and just pushing buttons till they got points

I don't think it's one in 20 unless they produce a broader poll that asks people who are in work out of work just left school and retired then maybe they have a point but 2000? No where near enough people

If you think 2000 is not enough people, there's a very accessible guide to sampling here: www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2001/06/SamplingGuide.pdf

and limitless other resources online, e.g. Khan Academy
www.khanacademy.org/math/probability/study-design-a1/samples-surveys/v/reasonable-samples

It was a survey of 2000 people probably bored people looking to make swag bucks or something and just pushing buttons till they got points

I don't think it's one in 20 unless they produce a broader poll that asks people who are in work out of work just left school and retired then maybe they have a point but 2000? No where near enough people

Do you say that about all surveys?

Anti-semitism is on the rise in this country.

It's totally disgusting my dh's family were in the holocaust his mum lost her brother and other members of their family escaped aushwitz. So for people to deny this happened is just wrong.

...and one in five think the number of jews killed was less than two million.

Would very much like to see these figures broken down by age and ethnicity.

To what extent is this just the usual ignorance and old-school anti-semitism, and how much a case of the two new bedfellows, leftwing and muslim antisemitism.

Deniers are just barn door anti-semites and their agenda is horrible and disturbing.
Anti-semitism is on the rise? Did it EVER decline, seriously?

Genocide is genocide. It doesn’t matter if it’s 500 or 5 million. One person killed for being who they are and whom they are of is one person too many. I loathe how deniers try and bring the numbers down. As if that changes anything.

I cannot understand how people can deny it happened...wtf is wrong with them? There’s so much proof! Unfortunately, it seems to be be exactly the people who need to know that realties of it (extreme right butters) that deny it.

A young, white British, working class, Northern man I (unfortunately) know whose great grandfather fought in WW1 and grandfather fought in WW2 for the UK has an antisemitic quote from Mein Kampf as his Facebook Profile quote. For a start, why is that even allowed and secondly why, when he’s so proud of his grandparents’ war efforts is he anti-Semitic? His entire family voted for Brexit due to racist reasons (they want all the “asian” people to “go home”) and now want no deal. How do people become that stupid?!

It’s on the rise too. My former best friend turned alt-right when she met a guy off Tinder who she’s about to marry. They both deny the holocaust and are “Nationalist Socialists” who as well as being anti-Semitic are anti-Islam, anti-feminist and basically anti anything that isn’t a white straight man. I’m half Asian with Muslim family and, as I say, was her best friend, we even lived together at one point.

All the people I’ve referred to are educated to at least degree level, some higher, in their mid to late 20s and learned about the holocaust in school, going to school alongside Jews and people of all races and faiths. What has happened? Genuinely? I just don’t understand how people can be so vile and forget what happened. We need to remember and never do it again.

CBBC’s Newround have made some videos of children talking to their grandparents/great-grandparents about the Holocaust. I defy anyone to listen to Jan’s story and not sob as he describes being torn from his father’s arms by Nazi’s and taken to a labour camp and never seeing his parents or siblings again.

www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/beta/canvas/holocaust-stories

I read the BBC article and was a bit annoyed that the poll only asked how many Jewish people were slaughtered, there were of course Gypsies and others I understand.

I do think this is an issue. It's seems to have been forgotten that people with disabilities were experimented on and murdered, gay people, Eastern European people, Romany people, mentally ill people...

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Dead? It's not even lying down.

Think of all the moon landing denyers. There's an element in this of bigging yourself up by 'knowing' that there's a conspiracy that fools everyone else but not you, etc.

Flat-out denial was in steady decline in the UK, but it was being superceded by revisionist denial, which nitpicks over numbers, methods and policies, and suggests that other events deserve equal if not greater attention, e.g, the Atlantic Slave Trade over nearky four hundred years killed more people and was allegedly funded by jews, etc.

We used to use most of January to teach about the Holocaust in RE lessons, so the younger ones would be shown the brilliant documentary about a 12 year old and his grandma. She had been liberated from the camps, and she wanted to go back to Lodz where she was born ans to show him her journey. The Year 9s used to start off laughing at how geeky the 12 yo was, but it took about 10 minutes, and they settled, and by the end of the video, most of them were silent.

Having got the requisite permissions, I used the episode from Band of Brothers where they discover a concentration camp for Year 10 and 11; that used to make them think.

We taught about the Shoah, had assemblies and tried to ram the message home that it must not happen again. Only by teaching it, and remembering it, can we ensure that the younger ones know about it.

I second the recommendation of the film "Denial" - I think it's available on Netflix.

I'd also strongly recommend "Telling Lies about Hitler" by Richard Evans, who was the expert witness for Penguin and Deborah Lipstadt in the Irving v Lipstadt case. It's about the research he did for the purposes of his evidence, and is fascinating in relation to the research process itself but also, in particular, in relation to the deliberate lies and fact suppression used routinely by Holocaust deniers like Irving.

@scaryteacher, I remember my French teacher at school (circa 1994-ish) showing us Au Revoir Les Enfants. It had no real purpose to our lessons, other than being a French language film, but it has stuck with me ever since.

No, I wasn't clear. I don't think there's enough emphasis on the holocaust as a whole, including the Jewish people. But I think some people aren't aware of the other victims which could possibly spark more empathy and understanding.

When I talk to DD 8 about Hitler, I talk about our Jewish friends, because that makes it 'real' to her. I also talk about her friend with disabilities.

It seems incredible that people need that to feel the horror and evil of it, but I think some people do.

Would very much like to see these figures broken down by age and ethnicity

There's some interesting data here from the Anti Defamation League - though not being a professional statistician I can't comment on its reliability

global100.adl.org/info/holocaust_info

"The World At War" Episode 20 'Genocide' is the pure undiluted source, as is the 1980 Blue Peter interview with Otto Frank.

YANBU. The younger generation have no idea - it's why so many of them think Corbyn is okay.

So depressing.

Nearly all primary's round here discuss holocaust. Boy in the stripped pyjamas is watched.

At secondary holocaust is taught. Ds1 went on school trip to Auschwitz this term.

Where does it say that it's Daily Mail readers polled?

@Kennehora. Those people instantly condemning others as ignorant or DM readers seem to escape the irony of their own intolerance

I am amazed at the 1 in 20 figure too and would love to see a breakdown of those people. Is it influenced by age, education, religion, ethnicity, etc?

Both secondary schools I have taught in have definitely taught the students about the holocaust, we have had survivors, survivors families in to talk to the students etc. I don't know the details of what is taught as its not my subject so not directly involved. Just know it is covered.

Also both schools are involved with a project where 2 yr 12 students go to Auschwitz and then have to do something within the school on their return to educate others.

However I will say if I was asked randomly with no warning I would struggle to say an accurate estimate of the number affected. Not due to me denying it happened, but I haven't committed to memory the actual number - I would probably say in the millions but further than that I will be honest and I would struggle.

I agree with others though, the lack of general world knowledge is lacking in young people, simple things shock me that they don't know. I put it down to the age of google and there is no need to remember it all.