To feel despair about holocaust deniers

[bananaramaspyjamas]

How shocking that 1 in 20 denies the holocaust. I'm quite horrified by that figure and find it really troubling.

It seems like some peoples response is to deny that this many people deny it.
Why is that?

bananaramaspyjamas
Don't ask me but I find it very worrying almost scary, what else would they be happy to turn a blind eye to

It seems like some peoples response is to deny that this many people deny it.
Why is that?

You might well ask.

Is it that they deny it or that they have never heard of it? I wonder if they phrased their question differently they would get different answers. I can think of some people I know who if asked 'Have you heard of the Holocaust?' would say no but if you asked 'have you heard of the concentration camps in the second world war?' would definitely say yes.

There is a link to the actual poll above 5 percent deny it happened, not that they'd never heard of it.

^^

A few years ago we visited Auschwitz (OHs grandfather was Jewish). The tour finished in the gas chamber building. OH had to leave, he was so upset seeing people laughing and joking and taking selfies.
These were people who had seen the huts and had the conditions explained. Had seen the heaps of clothes etc. They knew and still it was just a fun day out. My son was 16 and he was shocked by the behaviour.

How can people think that that footage was faked?

Lord only knows I'd ask how "actors" could reduce themselves to pitiful skeletal remains - and this in the days before CGI and similar camera trickery - but they'd no doubt have an answer for that too

As KennDodd rightly said, some will believe only what they want to ... what really worries me, though, is the motivation behind that

I'd like to see the actual questions asked and I can't find those anywhere

I don’t know why but the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust separate the deaths of Jews by the Nazis, specifying this as the holocaust and then in another section cover “Nazi Persecution”.

Because the "Final Solution to the Jewish Question" is what led to the Holocaust - the planned and executed mass extermination of the Jews.

For this reason, historically what happened to the Jews and what happened to other minority groups has been considered distinct.

What shocked me to the core when, as an adult in my 40s, I went to the Imperial War Museum - to the 3rd floor, I think, the age restricted one - was how little I knew about other 20th century genocides. Yes, of course I know about the Holocaust - also Cambodia and Rwanda - but did not know that 'never again' meant 'again and again'.

I'd like to know who are these people. I have to say my dh is from a Middle Eastern country and there's plenty of holocaust denial going on there. I used to bite my tongue with my ILs until I realised my dcs would grow up hearing it and I let rip one day. The thing is, I think these people actually know they're talking bullshit.

It's utterly bizzare there is so much documented about it, so much visual evidence, films real life survivors, etc etc etc... There is literally not even the smallest doubt...

Ghanagirl Do you have a source for your claim? In he school where I work we do a lot regarding the Holocaust as did the school before this one and the one where my brother works. Blaming schools and teacher is a cheap shot and not going to tackle this.

I'm not sure how important this 5% figure is. Round about 5% of people in any survey will pick something idiotic - this is informally known as the "Lizardman's Constant", the name arising from the number of US residents who agreed with the statement "Do you believe that shape-shifting reptilian people control our world by taking on human form and gaining political power to manipulate our society, or not? See everything2.com/title/Lizardman%2527s+Constant and onward links.

I'm not saying there aren't some people who are Holocaust deniers - just that most of the people involved here don't fall into that category.

I'd like to see a breakdown of the statistics.

VaselineDion
I think Ghana was referring to slavery not been covered in schools rather than the holocaust, I'm not sure what relevance it has, because both happened and neither excuses the other or makes the other less disgusting. I can also assume her that both were taught at school and neither were glorified.

Arkestra
Are you seriously using an article, that in the first paragraph uses the phrase 'Batshit crazy' as a legitimate source of critique?

Sorry insane not crazy

OP, I do assessments as part of visual screening and the bottom 5% of children I see are functionally illiterate and innumerate. So as adults they would often have the intellectual capacity of an average KS1/early KS2 child.
So in questionnaires they would comprehend " Was it wrong for Hitler to kill lots of Jewish people who had different beliefs to him?", but not "Do you think the Holocaust existed?"

If 14% of the population of the UK were born in a foreign country, and some of those will be Muslim countries that aren't exactly friendly towards Jewish people, as well as countries that have lower standards of education, that might explain some of this 5% surely. Plus the nitwits that believe the illuminati conspiracy theory shit and people who are just not very bright.

Yes, underneaththeash I just googled and 1.4 million people in the UK have a learning disability.

Onlyjoinedforthisthread

Do please take a moment to follow the links. The point is that very small minorities in responses to surveys are not necessarily to be taken as well grounded in an epistemically valid Weltanschauung. I hope that my reframing is sufficiently pretentious for you, but if not I can only apologise from the bottom of my heart.

There has just been a documentary on BBC2 called The Last Survivors. It is important testimony fron survivors and should be compilsory in every school.

I'm not saying there aren'tsomepeople who are Holocaust deniers - just that most of the people involved here don't fall into that category.

Seems to me that you are being a GF.

Taking selfies?

Did anyone challenge them?

DS and DD want to go to Auschwitz because we’ve talked a lot about the Holocaust and have visited Israel a number of times.
DD is very interested in Anne Frank and life in the camps on a practical level, whereas DS has grappled with the politics and propaganda that allowed it all to become legal. A few people have wondered why I’ve “let” them find out about it all. It’s because we need to knock out the complacency that’s let fascism etc creep back in.

When we say never again, we should mean it.