to be really shocked by this statistic?

[MyBreadIsEggy]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6636337/One-20-Britons-not-believe-Holocaust-took-place-study-finds.html

Apologies in advance that it’s a Daily Fail article, but one in 20?! Really?!

1 in 20 Brits in 2019 are Holocaust deniers?
It makes me feel sick to think there are people in this country who would be so ignorant.

@mybreadiseggy
I never say where I live on here, as I do quite a specific job. However, you are not a million miles away :)

If it is as reported, it's shocking. But does it mean "one in 20 britons is thick and has never heard of the holocaust in the first place"?

I mean, stop the average thickie in the street and ask how many people died and they wouldn't have a clue. If they said 50,000 as a guess, that could be recorded as holocaust denial. When it's not, it's pure ignorance.

I thought holocaust denial was a crime. If not, it should be.

DD's year at school participated in a webcast last week with a holocaust survivor. It had a huge impact on her.

"no live coverage."

OftenHangry can I recommend that you and everyone else watch Night Will Fall

It is harrowing and paints a full picture of what happened.

Oh I know someone who doesn't believe it happened. Although he also loves David Icke and thinks the moon is some alien transmission centre and that the queen is a lizard. So I tend to just smile and nod like I do when my toddler tells me she saw a fairy in the garden.

Lonicera
That programme shook me when I watched it

There’s another one, can’t remember what it’s called though, where British veterans who liberated Bergen Belsen talk about their experiences and what they saw - heartbreaking to see elderly gentlemen who had so much composure completely break down when they describe what they saw was difficult to watch

That's one of the reasons why I so strongly disagree with changing books to make them politically correct to fit our ideas today. I have been called all sorts of nastiness for holding that opinion. Apparently not wanting the sense of time, history in a text to be whitewashed makes me a racist, bigot, nazi etc etc etc.

I just keep up with the "Lest we forget" explanation and occasionally someone will see what I mean! But it is amazing how many will tell me that I am more disgusting or using that phrase to defend my reprehensible thoughts!

As Biologi said... we live in a totally Post Truth society and it scares and saddens me i equal measure!

Sadly I can well believe it, look at the rise of anti-semitism in the Labour Party.

I think a lot of schools are very good at teaching about ww1/ww11/holocaust these days, my kids have definitely been taught more about than I was,but I’ve certainly come across adults my age who seem to have got through school without being taught about it if they didn’t opt for history GCSE. Not holocaust deniers just oblivious, which is scary in these days of free speech being curtailed and the rise of the far right.

The term Holocaust denial also includes people who accept the Holocaust happened but think the numbers are inflated (also totally wrong obviously).

I used to work with a guy like this who gave me some rubbish line about there not being that number of Jewish people in Europe in the first place and how history is written by the victors.
When I pointed out that he was a Holocaust denier he was really offended

Are their really parents out their who think schools should water down the material used to teach holocaust history?!

Any links to a thread?
I’ve searched but come up empty

Are their really parents out their who think schools should water down the material used to teach holocaust history?!

I can believe it. Any time you try to teach anything other than rainbows and unicorns some mentalist objects. I am ‘that parent’ who insists they teach my children reality!

Sadly I’m not surprised as I suspect the number will only get higher. As the generation who lived through this (and in many cases their children) start to die out its going to be easier for people to deny it was really that bad rather than face up to the fact that there is such evil in mankind.

In recent years there’s been a massive push towards excusing what is basically evil behaviour, they’ve had a bad childhood, they’ve not had the opportunity etc it’s created a society that struggles to comprehend inexcusable evil exisists.

We have spent the last 50 odd years becoming closer and closer to the nation that undertook these atrocities talking about similarities, if we are all so similar it’s difficult to comprehend the grandfather of the exchange student herded women and children into gas chambers to choke to death. Marvelling at the technology of japan. It’s little wonder why the youth of today can comprehend how the country of manga would position pow over bamboo so it grew up inside them, they are not of a generation who knew the guy down the road whose insides were basically plastic after surviving this.

It’s difficult for the human mind to move on but still acknowledge the evil that has happened.

As for the PP trying to have a dog at people with different political views by assimilating them to hollocaust deniers. You make me sick trivialising the holocaust. Don’t forget many people of the generation who saw the effects first hand or heard the stories off their parents are the people you constantly berate for voting leave.

That's shocking. I'm under 30 and learnt about the holocaust at school, my parents told me about it too.

There was a piece on BBC breakfast last week about a son who volunteered to go with his dad to Auschwitz, it was heartbreaking to imagine.

Repeal
Either way, my kids will learn a factual version purely because it’s part of their family history - so whether that’s done at school or if it’s down to me to do it at home, they will know the truth, warts and all.

CuriousaboutSamphire
I am sadly not surprised, but I can't understand what people are thinking. You might as well deny that racism/sexism and so on ever existed because we don't tolerate it today.

It's very scary.

It's really sad but with the rise of right wing politics across the world I'm unfortunately not surprised to hear it.

That is the divisive blame game situation we are now in, the rise of anti-semitism in the far left isn't right wing politics.

Also everyone is skipping by the elephant in the room as to why such numbers arise

www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/london-mosque-cancels-holocaust-exhibition-after-muslim-protest-1.6808540

I’m sure the findings are pretty accurate. We’ve had a thread on here this week where people seem to think how to round a number to one decimal place is a matter of opinion, and that’s a standard subject like mathematics, with laws and rules. So a subject like history is much more likely to produce false ideas.

It’s also accurate to say half of the population have a below mean IQ.

Are their really parents out their who think schools should water down the material used to teach holocaust history?!

I'm a teacher and I can confirm that we've had parents complain about their children being upset by the Holocaust (in year 9). Last time I checked (I'm not a History teacher!) schools in the UK do have to teach about the Holocaust, but as pp have said, you can't deny the Holocaust if you don't know about it. Sadly, even the best teachers can't always counter other insidious influences from home and the internet.

SouthernComforts I’ll try and find that on iPlayer.
The way my Nana explained it to me, was that in the early days of people being rounded up and taken away (mostly to the ghetto in Kraków at first, then on to Płaczow camp, then on to Auschwitz) no one really had much of an idea what was going to happen. They initially thought they were just being separated from everyone else and were to be used as a workforce for the German war machine. They had no idea the Germans were capable of such evils that actually took place.
My Nana was only 11, so was sort of old enough to know something fishy was going on, but not old enough to really understand the extent of it

It's also on the BBC

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47015184

mybreadiseggy I had a very similar discussion with Yr6 last week. It isn’t their topic it led on from a question one of them asked in RE. They asked a lot of questions and I answered them as truefully as I could. One boy had a lot of knowledge. He has been to Eden Camp and various other places so he answered a lot of questions too. I love that class they really like to know and understand about the world and we have some wonderful discussions. Great understanding about RE and we do P4C a couple of times a term if I can slot it in to the afternoon. Philosophy for Children. They love the fact there is no right or wrong answers and enjoy debating their views. There is always hope.
We used to do WW2 as a topic.

I would wonder about the phrasing of the question. My guess is it’s probably not remembering all the details rather than consciously denying it, although obviously a minority will dismiss/downplay it.

I can believe that some people have an awareness from school, but might not recognise the question wording - for example they could have forgotten it was called the holocaust.

Some people will have covered it at school, but not discussed it at home. My parents and GP remembered WW2 and were engaged in conversations about it whenever I studied it at school. This isn’t everyone’s experience and so it becomes “just” something they studied at school.

Some people come from countries where it probably isn’t on the school curriculum, because other history is more relevant to their nationality.

What the story actually confirms is that most people don’t disbelieve it happened.

I have a colleague who has a (IMO) complicated outlook on war, Holocaust and the British Empire. They will consistently share Face Book nonsense from Britain First type sources, is a fervent Brexiteer with verging-on-racist tendencies yet will also share Lest We Forget posts highlighting the horrors of concentration camps and The Holocaust and genocide.

I often wonder if they are aware of the atrocities committed by The British Empire. I’ve never had the conversation with them but I would be willing to bet that they would be proud of the British Empire.

It’s a survey by the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust. Which at a rough guess has a vested interested in keeping people informed.
However I would say 5 in 100 people wouldn’t be that shocking really for the UK. There are always going to be people who miss being taught the Holocaust at school and it’s such a horrific episode I’m sure he more appalling details are left out when parents discuss it,
We are ethically diverse and it wouldn’t be a suprise to think that WW2 was taught more simplisticlally outside of Europe or the counterinsurgency directly involved.
I’m pretty sketchy on the details of autoricities in Cambodia for example even though they are similar.

How many people have heard of the Jallianwala Bagh massacre where soldiers from the British Indian Army murdered 1600 Indian civilians, including children, who were peacefully protesting?

The British Empire has also commited horrific acts. Man’s inhumanity to man.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-much-you-know-world-11313755.amp when you look at it compared to other statistics about facts from WWII it’s not so shocking.