Neighbour stole our woodland?

[TwittleBee]

Our DGrandad left me and my sister his woodland when he passed away a few years ago. It isn't anything that special (as in its not protected and hasn't any distinguished species) but does have a TPO on a couple of trees. It is a place that my sister and I visit occasionally and thought that perhaps we could use it as a place to "wild camp" with the kids this summer for a few weekends. Even had insipiration from what George Clark created in a piece of woodland in his series Amazing Spaces and thought maybe one day with enough money we could do the same.

Anyway, we went down there this weekend to have a look to see if we could maybe clear a patch for a good tent destination, Thought it be good to do this now before everything starts flourishing in the spring.

To our shock it's all been fenced off and there has been some very obvious clearing of trees and shrubs! We knocked on the nearest house to ask what's happened to our woodland and the couple that lived there informed us that they have now taken it as their own and have started keeping it in order for past couple months. They said that it now makes our land legally theirs?

Obviously we shall be seeking legal advice but in the meantime, can what they claim actually be correct?

Just seems so unfair? Surely that would mean I could just fence off any land and claim it as my own?

Could you check the planning department website (the one that CF would have to apply to in order to extend their property) to see if they have submitted an application to extend their house or add a concrete structure to the land (like a stone/brick shed for example) that would be over the permitted size that they could build without planning permission? Just in case they are planning on extending and are going about things in a strange order.

I guess they’re just hoping you give up like the neighbors

I'm furious for you - stress as well as the cfery. We had to prove adverse possession and it was not a breeze despite the land being fenced for 13 years and it not being on anyone else's title deeds (it was unclaimed) so hope their solicitor is just taking their money and following instructions rAther then thinking they have s good case. Good luck!

What I don’t understand with adverse possession is how you’re allowed to fence off land in the first place.

So you fence it off, so no one else can go on the land and then you can claim possession because no one else has been on the land!

OP, do you have any insurance on the woodland, or is it covered by your household insurance by any chance? Because it may be that you are insured for legal costs.

Do you have any photographs from the past 10 years of your family members at the woodland?

The legal clauses quoted above by a pp would seem to put paid to any claim.

Basically if a solicitor has been instructed by them it doesn’t necessarily mean the solicitor thinks they have a good case, just that the CFs have engaged them to fight a weak case.

(NB I am not a lawyer of any kind)

I haven't read all the thread OP, apologies, but could the other neighbour who they have taken land off, confirm whether the CF have been using the land for more than 10 years.

This is absolutely unbelievably awful (but I totally believe it!!) OP, I can’t think WHAT they are thinking, what an asshole!!! Can’t believe he has intimidated the others into giving up!!

Congrats on pg and job! Bet the job is a relief!

The other neighbours have said they wouldn't be prepared to stand up in court or give any kind of evidence now.

I suppose I could understand maybe if this was some sort of Village Green or public green space application as we haven't stopped others using the land. We didn't really have an issue if others wanted to pass by or walk their dogs there. What we do have an issue with is CF hoarding it all to himself!

I haven't taken legal cover so no insurance to cover the costs. Pretty sure sister and dad haven't done the same.

Just read the full thread op and oh my what a set of cf neighbours you have! If you have contents insurance you may have legal cover on that. Definitely worth a try

IF they were able to secure the woodland from you and 5he neighbours, do you know how much land they would have in total - including their house and garden?

Am just wondering if theyre planning ahead and hoping to sell the whole lot to a developer for new housing? One neighbour of mine made a tidy sum by selling a small field to a developer for four dwellings, and another neighbour sold a plot of overgrown land behind their garden for a small close of bungalows. It’s amazing what can be slotted into a not huge plot of land, and planning permission for these developments is often given to due long-term targets that authorities need to meet for new housing.

Just a thought, but they could be seeing pound signs as they seem so determined (and have already cleared some trees).

Good luck with keeping going and stopping the CFs.

Ask for advice on the Garden Law website. They have some knowledgeable people and lots of advice on adverse posession. Unless they can prove that they have adversely occupied the land, the claim will fail, they have the burden of proof.

I’d be tempted to go knock down the fence and put my own up. Lock them out

On the insurance issue, if you are allowing people to walk on the land and use the site, it would definitely be worth getting insurance. All it takes is someone to hurt themselves, and you could be faced with a law suit. Or get the gate lock cut off, put your own on, and block access to everyone.

They also can't appropriate the land to build an extension or even turn it into a garden. That requires planning permission.

Frustrating about the neighbours, but I can totally understand their position if they've been physically intimidated and (probably) threatened by the CF neighbours.

What has the solicitor advised? Presumably, even taking their statement of 10 years' maintenance at face value, they still have no claim on the land since its less than 12 years and no attempt to find or contact you or your sister has been made?

Congratulations on the job front OP.

Ask anyone you know who has been on the land for any photos they may have.

Start a file with all the times you can remember visiting.

And yes to asking MN campers to utilise the space!

The information at this link seems to explain the situation quite clearly and to suggest that the neighbour is going to find it pretty hard to get anywhere with their claim. And that is ignoring the point made by a PP about the intervening time the land was part of a deceased's estate:

www.bdbpitmans.com/insights/the-challenge-of-adverse-possession-of-registered-land/

In the meantime, are you looking to get onto the land for camping/walking etc? In your situation, I would definitely want to find out how I could access my land - surely the fence is a trespass and could be taken down legally by you as the owner, at least before the neighbours actually put in their claim? You wouldn't want to do anything though until you have had advice on your legal position.

Am so cross on your behalf. This takes entitled CF to a new level.

Urgh. I hate people like this. We have some around here that just bully and intimidate and eventually get their way.

Horrid fuckers.

You may have your own house insurance that covers the woodland, or your sister/dad

Personally I'd be suing them for trespassing and vandalism!!

Outside of the ownership issues, they are also going to have somehow demonstrate that the land is lawfully residential garden under planning legislation. You can't just use land as garden without the necessary planning permission or certificate of lawfulness.

I can't believe they are still trying this! If it helps to reassure you, I knew a guy who was a pub landlord and had been maintaining a big wearhouse next to his pub for about 15 years, he had recipts and everything showing he had been maintaining it (and i think using it to store beer). The owner was a holding company based outside the UK. The pub landlord tried to get adverse posession and everything was going really well, so well that he had even lined up a buyer for the place after he took ownership.... then land regestry or the courts (I cant remember who) finally tracked down the ultimate owner through the series of companies he had set up to manage his various golbal holdings. He promptly showed up in London and basically just said no its mine you can't have it and the application was denied. So it's very difficult to actually get adverse posession enacted.

I suggest you take the fence down now after the solicitor's letter. What can they do? Once the solicitor starts to get actual facts from yourself and sees your paperwork they will have to back off. They can't win. You need to take immediate action to reclaim your property. Lock them out ASAP. Hire some burly builders this week end. I bet if you explain they will be happy to assist without having your eyes out £££!!.

I've read all Op posts but have only read a few replies so this has probably been said but:

When (and I think it is a matter of when not if) you get your land back I think you'll need some kind of security/surveillance.

No idea how easy that will be out there, but if they're as bad as they seem they may take a "if we can't have it no one will" attitude and either dump stuff or in some other way try to ruin the area. Maybe one of the friendly neighbours will let you install CCTV on their property?So you pay but they also get the benefit of the extra security?