Neighbour stole our woodland?

[TwittleBee]

Our DGrandad left me and my sister his woodland when he passed away a few years ago. It isn't anything that special (as in its not protected and hasn't any distinguished species) but does have a TPO on a couple of trees. It is a place that my sister and I visit occasionally and thought that perhaps we could use it as a place to "wild camp" with the kids this summer for a few weekends. Even had insipiration from what George Clark created in a piece of woodland in his series Amazing Spaces and thought maybe one day with enough money we could do the same.

Anyway, we went down there this weekend to have a look to see if we could maybe clear a patch for a good tent destination, Thought it be good to do this now before everything starts flourishing in the spring.

To our shock it's all been fenced off and there has been some very obvious clearing of trees and shrubs! We knocked on the nearest house to ask what's happened to our woodland and the couple that lived there informed us that they have now taken it as their own and have started keeping it in order for past couple months. They said that it now makes our land legally theirs?

Obviously we shall be seeking legal advice but in the meantime, can what they claim actually be correct?

Just seems so unfair? Surely that would mean I could just fence off any land and claim it as my own?

[Disfordarkchocolate]

I'd also ask your family to see if their phone records a timeline of where they have been. That should be lots of evidence of regular access and usage by your family since the wood was inherited. I feel very sorry for you nice neighbour, what sort of bullying had gone on there.

[mummmy2017]

This will be an on going problem, it may be worth setting up a property developer who you know, ask them to buy it and let them help you sort it.....
Or can you sell us all few hours inches each, round the boarder with the CF ...

[Londonmummy66]

I've been lurking on this thread for a long time but didn't have anything much to add. However, I think that I good and cheap way to progress the matter would be for you to write to their solicitor to state that the land was maintained by your grandfather until his death and that you and your family have continued to use it since inheriting it. Send him a copy of your grandfather's death certificate and grant of probate - they cost about £10 each I think and point out that the woodland was subject to a trust 8 years ago whilst your grandfather's estate was wound up. Any solicitor dealing with an adverse possession case should be aware of the law in this area and should advise their client to back down.

[Ciasteczka]

Random thought but have you checked when the Google maps satellite view was left updated and what is on there? If they've only been clearing recently it might provide you with some evidence you can screenshot.

[malpa]

I'm disappointed, Mumsnetters. So much for being a nest of vipers...

The majority here are supporting the legal route (why should OP have to prove she has used her land?) - if somebody attempted to claim your property, most of you would meekly walk away and give your solicitor a call? Am I missing something here? OP clearly owns the land.

OP, I know you've had other stuff going on but this should have been nipped in the bud on the day you noticed the fencing. Since then, the neighbours have been trying to push for a title transfer on the quiet, and successfully intimidated the other neighbour into backing down. And now they are offering you a pittance for the land as "a token of goodwill", implying they are doing you a favour and have more say over the land than you do. Unfortunately, the lack of any meaningful challenge these past few months has given them momentum.

But... it's your land! I wouldn't be farting about with solicitors and letters, being all nicey-nicey and politely asking people to not claim my property. I'd be banging on the neighbours' door and stating they have an hour to start removing the fence or it'll be turned into firewood. No debate, no compromise, no being fobbed off... just "Get the fuck orf my land!"

These people are clearly hoping that you will just give up without a fight, but (and sorry if this seems harsh) part of the reason they are being CFs is because you are allowing them to get away with it. Do now, what you should have done back in January...

[billybagpuss]

Congrats on your job @Twittlebee and absolutely gobsmacked at the update.

[LordPickle]

This thread is stressing me out! Why should you have to pay lawyers and be out of pocket to prove what you own, when you have the proper documentation!!!!

These people are chancer CF's of the highest order. Do not let them win OP.

[StoneofDestiny]

Can you not say YOU have been maintaining it for the last 10 years and there was no evidence of them anywhere near it til the fence went up?

[WelshMoth]

Malpa has a point OP. It sounds like the CF'ers are relying on you meekly backing down.

Tear down their fences - have you the muscle/friends to do it ?

[rslsys]

Tear down their fences - have you the muscle/friends to do it ?

Can feel a MN day out building!

[NicoAndTheNiners]

Agree with malpa I'd have flattened the fence on day one.

Which is what my SIL did when a local farmer put a shed on a field she and dh own. She drove the quad bike into it and flattened it. Farmer was trying to do the same and claim the field as his own.

OP doesn't need to prove she's been maintaining the woodland for the last ten years because she owns it. You don't have to maintain your land if you don't want to.

Proof of use/maintenance comes for someone trying to claim possession. And the CFs just saying they've been doing it isn't enough. I doubt even having any friends back them up is enough. They would need photos, they'd need receipts for stuff bought such as fencing and evidence from workmen, delivery men that it was for the woodland and this would need to date back at least ten years. They haven't a hope.

[PCohle]

Even if they are on OP's land, tearing down the neighbour's fences could constitute criminal damage. Given the neighbours have clearly instructed lawyers, they're probably well aware of this - it doesn't seem like a particularly good idea.

[RoomR0613]

ive followed this from the start and was all for the legal route but these people aren't going to roll over and say 'ahh you got us, that's fine we will play nice'.

Take the fence down. It's your land so the only way they can prove the fence ever existed or belonged to them is receipts that will show it is new.

Plead ignorance 'what fence?' whilst burning the fecker in the background and toasting marshmallows over it.

[RandomMess]

I would be asking friends of friends localish to that area if they know of erm a certain kind of person that would be happy to remove a few panels at the very least.

[zigzagbetty]

Apologies if you have done this, have you rang the land registry for advice? There may be an entry you could put on the register to prevent this, also update your address for service as they will send you notice if adverse possession is applied for. It is my understanding that if you object it will go no further. They have in house lawyers who deal with these cases.

[billybagpuss]

@ciastexzka’s suggestion is a good one check out google maps could you maybe even contact google or find a way to access old ones

What is your next move twittlebee

[pinkandstripey]

Could you sell the land to your husband or sister for a nominal rate? Would this count to restart the 10 year legal thing?

[Bluffinwithmymuffin]

10/04/2019 22:46 marfisa
I don't see how this could turn into a long expensive battle? Surely no court in the land would give them the time of day.

If only that was the case. Years ago I worked in a solicitor’s office; there was a case where someone had annexed part of their neighbour’s loft space and made it their own. When the neighbour finally found out and went to court to get his own space back, he lost. Unbelievably. Hopefully this won’t happen to the Op- (and tbh the neighbour’s solicitor was a bit shit).

[FellaGoneRogue]

Can we have a diagram? I need to picture this woodland in my head as I'm totally over invested

Your woodland could actually be very desirable profitable for rental from forest school companies or outdoor ranger type parties.

[DobbyTheHouseElk]

I’ve been following and then I lost the thread. I’m raging for you OP. A woodland is my dream. To have some nasty bully steal it is unthinkable. Really hope this sorts out. It’s not fair.

[DanielRicciardosSmile]

@FellaGoneRogue OP has posted a diagram earlier in the thread.

[gubbsywubbsy]

Its not merely woodland if it adds value to their house though is it !

[RemodellingMyHouse]

I'm with the pp who would just go and remove the fence. Hire a quad bike and trailer and get all the fencing out of there.

What are they going to do exactly? They do not own the land. They have nothing to prove that the fencing is theirs and has been there a long time. Take some hefty mates, and don't back down - if they see you and call the police simply tell the police it's your land (take copies of the deeds with you). Then put your own fencing up, And install security cameras.

[RemodellingMyHouse]

Does the local area have it's own Facebook group?

If so, you could put out an appeal for other locals who you have allowed to use the wood to come forward. They may be willing to give evidence to support you, and it would shame the fuckers who are doing this.

[RemodellingMyHouse]

Once you've removed the fencing, get in their and spend a week doing some maintenance, coppicing, building wildlife habitats etc. Take lots of photos, post a blog about it online...

That's the kind of evidence you'll need for the future with greedy neighbours like this.