To not want to work a 24-hour day because "it's fun"?

[KentishMama]

Probably a bit outing, so will keep it brief.

I work for a super cool trendy startup in a pretty senior role. My boss decided that the entire team should do a Hackathon style event where we try to solve a couple of big business problems in teams... Overnight. The "event" starts at 4 pm (after we've already been at work since 8:30) and ends at 10 am the next morning. After that, we can "have the rest of the day off."

But what about sleep? "Oh, there'll be coffee. And if anyone needs a power nap there are a couple of sofas."

I really don't want to do this - I'm usually asleep by 9:30 and don't cope with late nights, and won't see DC for 36 hours if I do this... But I know that I'll be told I'm setting a poor example for my team and that this is meant as a team bonding kind of thing.

AIBU?

rookiemere That’s a pretty jaundiced view. The average salary per employee at Facebook London is about £200k (publicly available information) so it’s certainly not badly paid. Surely you can’t complain when a company rewards high performers with promotion - I bloody wish they did a bit more of that in the City!

Putting employees in a position where they’re driving home having missed a nights sleep isn’t worth it for a ”fun” team building exercise.

I think my message to my line management would be that there is a reputational (and financial) risk here, and to get them to run it past the company lawyers first.

Ffs even the stupid madeup word Hackathon gives me the rage urgh.

I second being grateful for working in a non- trendy ps organisation!

Nothing wrong with the word. "-athon" is a commonly used suffix (see: www.dictionary.com/browse/-athon), derived from marathon, to describe a lengthy event. If the event is about swimming, it's a swimathon. If the event is about hacking, ta-da, it's a hackathon.

This is one of those situations when you should politely point out that it is stupid, opt out on those grounds and, start looking for a new job.

Agree to it... then at 6pm get someone to call you with an emergency. Don't let on that you don't want to go so it's not weird when you leave

@ThePants999 - you can justify all you like about it being a valid suffix etc etc.

I find it affected and typical of the corporate bollox I've put up with for years, it's froth and lacks any real substance.

I remain unconvinced in the concept of working overnight, and associated name to give it credibility, when time outside core hours should be spent with one's family, As you can tell I'm passionate about worklife balance and treating staff like intelligent beings, not herded into a room and forced to 'think creative'. All the hallmarks of a trendy Graduate who take themselves too seriously.

Ergh my company does this annually and I hate it. Thank fuck I have kids to put to bed now which is an excuse better than "I just don't fucking want to"!

Definitely don't say you're doing it and then concoct a family emergency. I can see that going down badly.

I've just googled about Best practices for Hackathons and it seems like the idea is not that you start after a full days work already exhausted, but that you'd start in the morning and people would want to keep going for 24 hrs. clearly no people i've ever met.

Surely much more sustainable to start in the morning- and on the subject I'd rather start early so why not kick off at 7 - and get people to really focus in whatever it is for as long as it takes which is likely to be around 5pm then get in pizzas and let folk come in a but late the next day. That's what I'd be pitching and meanwhile expressing mild concern if people would be safe to drive after an overnighter and what if there were childcare constraints.

It sucks, but I think you need to be very clever in how you voice your concerns so framing it around getting the most out of the event and avoiding employee burn out, rather than just saying its a rubbish idea. For what its worth I'd be useless for 2-3 days after no sleep so I hope if they do this silly thing it's at least at the start of the week so it's not your time that's being lost.

I ONCE did an all-nighter (was on-call for an IT system), where I'd worked all day, then, just as I was thinking about going to bed, I got a call. Things went wrong that had never gone wrong before, and I had to hand over to a colleague about 8am. I had the presence of mind to call a taxi, as I would have been totally unsafe to drive. I was so exhausted I could barely sleep, but when I did wake up, I wrote a letter of resignation, which I took in the following day (I wasn't capable of working that day either) - so that was effectively two lost days. My manager wouldn't accept my resignation, but I agreed to stay as long as they implemented changes so that what I'd experienced would never be repeated (changes WERE made!).

So, based on my extremely limited personal experience I would say the proposed hackathon is unlikely to get the most productive work out of the staff.

I'd sound out all of your team members to see how keen they really are to do this, have they any concept of how it will affect them, etc. Then have a friendly but constructive chat with your manager in which you establish what he expects to achieve, then put forward an alternative proposal - there's been lots of good suggestions up thread.

Hopefully it will be called off in its present form, but go ahead in some other (more acceptable form) so that he'll get whatever output he's after and your team will thank you - win-win all round.

Let us know how you get on.

Thank you so much, everyone. I'm definitely sounding out the team tomorrow, and then address what I can - constructively. I'm going to have to tread a bit carefully this week as this coincides with my performance review. Best get that done before I make myself unpopular

SkylightAndChandelier

I've read of more than once incident of sleeping women at these things being assaulted, so it's not something that I think is wise.

Yup.

And if not assaulted, then they find themselves in a situation that the men interpret as social rather than work, with drinks and food delivered, and the frisson that the presence of couches or beds provides.

The more zombiesque everyone is at 2am the better, in the minds of some.

Is there even a real business problem to solve?! If it's not an artificial problem (and even if it is), working in shifts and laying on transport is the civilised, legal and productive way to solve it.

Good luck with the performance review and the pushing back!

I would say I have to pick up my child from school and have no one else to do it (true). I couldn’t book a Sitter to come all night either so there is no way I could participate even if I wanted to. Poor you, am pretty shocked you are being made to do this! People can easily say no to our away days in the day during work hours if they don’t want to come!

The main message being sent by your company here is that they're only open to a certain type of employee progressing.

Have kids, ill health (but where you can 100% fulfill your contract normally), elderly care responsibility, volunteer work, no wife at home taking care of household stuff like shopping/parcels/the dog's vet apt.... you're being told "people like you don't (can't) last here".

In other words, this type of event is set up to reward and encourage 1 type of employee: able bodied young people with zero outside commitments. Usually concocted by extroverts too.

I bet your company talks about a female talent shortage, or a lack of good female talent pipeline for promotion, or wonders why their disability stats look shit, and so on... Am I right Op?

Hi Kentish

Are these business problems your business problems or generic , made up ones with a known best solution intended to ‘test’ the teamwork?

Are you being paid overtime ?

I’d be wary that this event is the precedent being set for the future.

You mention problems, plural.
Would it be possible to say this first time, you pick ONE problem and work on that, aiming to finish 10pm?

I think it’s against working hours directive- I would suggest looking it up online. You need certain amount of hours between working days.

What if you have a dog, a child, and elderly relative? What if the word 'hackathon' makes you want to throw up?

A day where you take creative time out - great! A day/night where only people with no work-life balance or responsibilities can participate - awful! (And actually pretty discriminatory.)

Give your boss the book "Why we sleep" - ask him to read it, highlight the parts that show how bad sleep deprivation is for your physical and mental health and ask whether the company could be opening itself up to litigation by asking staff to participate. Have they not considered the health and safety risks!

Sorry, essentially this is "Will you work loads of hours unpaid?" Sod that.

I'd cry off sick or claim a prior engagement

Sounds like something out of Dilbert

I second asking whether this could be indirect discrimination. I have a long term health condition - there is no way I could participate in this.

I’ve had to work all night because there was an external deadline and tasks took longer than we hoped. I don’t mean artificial deadlines, I mean things like a judge has demanded our report at 8am. It happens. It doesn’t inspire our best work. It sets off spirals of inefficiency, and if it happens too often, it leads to massive turnover.

The other posters are right. This event is a subtle way of signaling that only young, healthy employees with no real outside concerns are welcome. It may even be unconscious on management’s part.

Your boss is a fucking dick to try & pull this shit. If problems can’t be sorted in office hours then the company has a big problem that is not your problem. And to ask this of people who have kids is ridiculous. If my boss tried this I’m afraid I’d have to tell him to 0121-do-1

Ps: if your boss frowns upon you saying no, point him in the direction of your local employment solicitor.....