To not want to work a 24-hour day because "it's fun"?

[KentishMama]

Probably a bit outing, so will keep it brief.

I work for a super cool trendy startup in a pretty senior role. My boss decided that the entire team should do a Hackathon style event where we try to solve a couple of big business problems in teams... Overnight. The "event" starts at 4 pm (after we've already been at work since 8:30) and ends at 10 am the next morning. After that, we can "have the rest of the day off."

But what about sleep? "Oh, there'll be coffee. And if anyone needs a power nap there are a couple of sofas."

I really don't want to do this - I'm usually asleep by 9:30 and don't cope with late nights, and won't see DC for 36 hours if I do this... But I know that I'll be told I'm setting a poor example for my team and that this is meant as a team bonding kind of thing.

AIBU?

If I were OP, I would work well up to Thursday evening, then when this game-playing, problem-solving nonsense starts up, start making big mistakes, start fucking up, and proclaim "Oh dear me. My brain is frazzled. I'm making unforced errors. It's as if lack of sleep fucks up your brain".

ANother vote for putting it to your boss that this is a shit idea and will not do the business any good.

YANBU in the slightest. What is wrong with businesses these days? I'm 51 and I swear employers never used to be this bad about making their staff jump through silly hoops. I'm self-employed now, but my last employer, while not going to the lengths of imposing 24-hour workathons, used to be pretty bad for these silly so-called team-building exercises. Just let people get on with doing the jobs they were employed to do FFS.

Worst thing is, even the Working Time Directive might be out of the window soon and then it's all likely to get even worse.

OP I also meant to say that as you're in a senior role perhaps you're in a strong position to take a stand against this?

The only way to deal with idiocy like this is collectively. You ALL need to agree you are not going to do it. (If any eager beavers see it as an opportunity to promote their brand , tie them up in a cupboard for a while). 😉😄

Once you've all agreed, send a singing telegram to your boss to deliver the message you will not be doing this for various reasons, including the fact it's ILLEGAL to expect this. Then she can't shoot the messenger. Send a large bouquet with the singing telegram to soften the blow.

Then when the singing telegram has sung your message, s/he can deliver said few blows with the bouquet to make sure the message has got through. Then exit left with head held high.

There is no other way to respond. -I'd do the gig myself for the appropriate fee- .

Oh god, what a shit idea. Definitely play it from the angle of health & safety, hidden disabilities, could be discrimatory for people who have caring responsibilities without saying outright you hate the idea! I think as s senior member of staff you are in a strong position to kill this off.

I would politely tell that wanker to fuck right off.

I would simply be physically incapable of taking part in an overnight event. With the best will in the world I would not be able to keep my eyes open. Come about 9:30 pm the eager beavers would be hideously distracted by my heavy snoring.

Is your boss 18? I would have totally done that 10 years ago now I need my bed 😂 maybe try and argue him to getting the day before off or maybe a 2pm start! 2pm to 10am is still a 20 hour stint so he’s getting an extra 4 hours out of everyone one and maybe see if he will be up for doing it on a Friday so you can go home and get a longer weekend in too! It sucks but get as much as you can out of it if he’s going to make you join in!

Why do we women feel we have to apologise for not wanting to take part in this kind of thing? It's pointless and will acheive nothing. When you go and see your boss, don't apologise, don't make excuses, just say 'I love the idea of this team building event but there's no way I'm doing it through the night. If you rearrange it for a weekday I'll throw myself behind it and get the whole team revved up'. If it helps, while you're saying it, pretend you're a bloke, or Emma Thompson (or anyone else who doesn't take any crap!)

Just point out it is not legal for any of the staff to drive home afterwards and if they have an accident owing to sleep deprivation and exhaustion is the Boss prepared to take the blame?

If you haven't opted out of the working time directive then I'm pretty sure he can't make you!

Opting out isn't relevant in this case, you can't opt out of the rest requirements anyway.

As for trendy hipster organisations, DD works for one of these and they treat their staff brilliantly. Having a beard and eating very expensive granola doesn't have to make you a crap employer.

@CheshireGirl the one time I politely told someone I wasn't doing something for XYZ reasons, they gave me the 3rd degree then proceded to make a public dig about it. I think people just get fed of weathering the storm.

One of my friends is a Facebook alumna. Earned a decent whack as a contractor there but not the 200k mentioned above. She wasn't in a techy role but mentioned how the office is set up so that you can basically live there. I found that a bit sad. She worked long days but still liked to go home at a reasonable hour to see her husband or pursue her hobby- which is also a secondary career. She says this is partly she never got converted from contractor to perm, she thinks. There was always a 24yo willing to stay til 9pm. She still works long hours in the industry for a start up. She does have some amazing perks and a good salary but she always seems to be really stressed and has to pretty much justify leaving the building at home time. I couldn't do it

Send your boss a link to this thread, saying Mumsnet has already performed a very effective hackathon on this business problem. Over days. In shifts.

Your boss is the business problem. HTH.

Haven't read the full thread, so apologies if it has already been suggested but why not make it a "fun" thing by suggesting to do two teams. His overnight team for all those who are up for it and an alternative group for all those who can't/ won't work well at night. You commit yourself all of Thursday and Friday to the same problems them see who had the better solutions. Both teams put in the same hours and it's a little in house competition as well. That way you are not opting out; you are making this idea work for everyone and it might actually be fun and team bonding. Worth a suggestion surely. Good luck.

This sort of prickery is just so he can dine out on how hard working he is and remember that time they worked all night?

Say no. You're in a senior role, stand up for the more junior staff who will feel they really can't say anything. It's a ridiculous idea for all the reasons everyone has already said.

Good luck!

If you are a manager you have a responsibility to your team to withhold their HSE rights.
So say to your manager - a hackathon sounds like a great idea. We could really do some good work. But we have to allow staff 11hrs rest in a 24hour period. How can we rearrange this so that's possible? I don't want our company to get in trouble and possibly taken to court by the HSE.
And point to m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1373

It's absolute nonsense and sums up so much that is wrong in the world of work today. It also sounds as if its breaking several laws and regulations.

Ugh, how old is your boss? Is she quite young by any chance? I'm lucky enough to be in charge, but before I was, my mantra was 'you can't afford my weekend.' I know. I'm in a privileged position to be able to say this, but as far as possible I make sure my staff are treated as I'd want to be. Letting them away early on a Friday, not moaning if they have occasional childcare issues/need to go to Christmas concerts/allowing flexible working/keeping a flexible approach to the office in general etc, and treating them like the competent, hard working, non piss taking, adults they are. They appreciate this, so if I do ask for something out of the ordinary, they will do it, and they work hard. This management style is one that's taken a while to cultivate, which leads me to believe your boss is a young un?
I think you're right to stand up for your staff. Hope the meeting goes well!

I've heard of this being done in some of these "modern thinking" companies. Supposedly the non stopping of work continues the thinking about a problem and is likely to produce a result. I'd be asleep with boredom after half an hour.

Ironically, that's exactly the opposite of how brains actually work: the way to get some progress on a really hard problem that you've worked on hard enough to get to a standstill is...to go get some sleep.

The problem with these trendy new start ups, is that they tend to attract trendy new people who are yet to have trendy new families so will be up for this kind of bollocks.

They still have to abide by employment laws and health and safety though, so obviously getting your staff to work 26 hours straight might fall foul of this.

To be honest, it's not sounding like a great fit for you anymore , with your commitments. Maybe they can be ultra trendy and provide reasonable working patterns for parents?

If you must take part to prove that you're a good team it doesn't say much for the team in the first place.

We had this at one of my last jobs at the weekend - we were told that 'attendance is mandatory' after the MD had asked a few of her cronies what they thought of the idea. All those bum-lickers were enthusiastic but at the event there were empty spaces at every table - not such a clever idea, then.

If you are brave enough to say so - tell the boss that you are a good enough team and don't have to prove it with this.
If he disagrees say, 'I have spoken.' Just ensure that everything else you and your team do is above reproach so that he can't comment further.