Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think NHS gp's should work like NHS dentists

182 replies

Gaballout · 25/01/2019 15:19

It's so hard to get an appointment. Why don't GPS run like the NHS dentist to stop time wasters and people not showing up.

So charge people a small amount for an appointment and if you're poor you don't pay (just like NHS dentists).

The NHS is under funded and tax rises they just won't bring in. This could bring in millions a year and there's no outcry about NHS dentist costs.

OP posts:
IsobelKarev · 25/01/2019 15:43

Fair enough in those cases as you can usually provide evidence of the admin error.

How do you prove that you never received a letter?!

Xenia · 25/01/2019 15:43

I pay loads of tax and have for over 35 years without a single break working full time. I have been to my GP once in 12 years. I feel like HMRC should send me a massive tax refund in return for never being ill (I don't drink, smoke, eat junk food etc).

scarbados · 25/01/2019 15:44

Re NHS dentists - such a 'good system' that I've had to wait over 3 years from moving to a new area to get registered with a dentist and was given a choice of 3, all between 20 and 30 miles away.

Thank god the GP system isn't such a shambles!

Ursaminor · 25/01/2019 15:48

Also - the bureaucracy to run it - cards and cash at the GP surgery? Taking it in, accounting for it, banking it - enforcing it! A practical nightmare.

lazyarse123 · 25/01/2019 15:52

My surgery have started to charge a £10 deposit for a bp monitor which you get back as some patients weren't returning them, which seemed odd as obviously they know who these patients are. Anyway my dh needed one and things are so tight we couldn't afford to be a tenner short for a fortnight so we wrote to the practice manager to explain and she said "sorry it's now policy". But when he saw the dr he just gave him one and it's a good job he did as his tablets needed increasing. Between us we have paid into the nhs for 70 years, think we've paid enough.

Original poster
Gaballout · 25/01/2019 15:54

But people's tax take isn't covering the NHS, as seen by the national debt and how underfunded the system is.

The entitlement it should be free I just don't understand

OP posts:
Original poster
Gaballout · 25/01/2019 15:55

It's not exactly hard to charge people £15 an appointment Confused

OP posts:
Sockwomble · 25/01/2019 15:57

Should people pay for their child to go to school? Schools are also underfunded.

MotherOfDragons90 · 25/01/2019 15:58

What about the people who have worked and paid their NI their whole life and rarely visited the DR, but are now at the age where they need to go more? Surely that’s not fair. 30 years of paying in assuming it would be free of charge when needed most and then suddenly that’s taken away.

Cornettoninja · 25/01/2019 15:59

The dentist is too different to a doctor - dentists specialise in one area and like opticians are limited to how many times an individual patient will need to see them.

GP’s are the primary career or link to many other specialisms. If it were say, £10 a visit and I need mental health medication reviewing or a prescription won’t be reissued, my dp needs an epilepsy prescription review or it won’t be reissued and dc has an ear infection and due to a car breakdown earlier that month we can only afford for one to be seen who goes first? That’s not the kind of scenario I would want to see become common in this country.

Not to mention that still providing a free service to those below a certain income bracket won’t have that much impact. That’s primarily the group who use the GP most. Pensioners, severe mental health sufferers those with disabilities meaning they’re unable to work.

Lack of GP appointments is largely down to not having enough GP’s. Some areas just cannot recruit anyone. Perhaps nurse prescribers are the way to go to ease the burden which I believe is already happening to some extent.

rookiemere · 25/01/2019 16:00

I really don't think the NHS's issues will be resolved by fining non-attendees. It would just be yet another stealth tax on those who can supposedly afford it and an administrative burden to sift out those who can't. As someone upthread said, I've never seen a doctor twiddling their thumbs waiting for their next appointment. 10 minutes is woefully inadequate for correctly diagnosing complex medical conditions and I suspect ( though nobody will ever dare say it) that the breaks provided by non-attenders help them to get through their workload.

If there are to be charges I feel it would be better to open surgeries and weekends and some evenings and start charging for those appointments so if you're working and can't make it during the week then there is an option to see a doctor.

howabout · 25/01/2019 16:03

NHS dental check ups are free in Scotland. I have a choice of 3 NHS dental practices within walking distance - all with open registers. Unlike when I lived in London I have never been offered expensive unnecessary treatment. My appointments are made 6 months in advance - I can't see that working with the doctor who I only visit on a needs basis.

I think it would be a mistake for doctors to proceed any further down the copying dentists route in England.

Redglitter · 25/01/2019 16:04

It's not exactly hard to charge people £15 an appointment

Not everyone can afford that. What about people with conditions who need regular appointments. On Tues Ill have had 3 appointments in just over a week. There's no way on earth i could find £45 this close to payday.

If i hadnt seen my doctor initially and got meds theres a strong chance id have ended up in hospital again. That would have cost the NHS an awful lot more

Jenny17 · 25/01/2019 16:04

How do you know that those causing the problem are those that won't end of up paying i.e. workers pay more whilst the problem persists.

Hwory · 25/01/2019 16:06

Like nhs dentist?? Absolutely fucking not. I’ve had to wait over 18 months to get into a dentist that takes me over an hour to get to after work.

All the local dentists waiting lists were so long they were closed for over a year.

I was in tears in the emergency dentist as I had gum disease and I needed my teeth cleaning to fix. Not their job they said local dentist or your teeth will fall out - can’t get in I said what am I supposed to do?

QueenieInFrance · 25/01/2019 16:08

£15 per appointment when you are healthy is one thing. £15 when yu have some health proem that need regular monitoring is another.
Most people going to see their GP have a chronic illness. How would they be coping??

Plus of course, what do you class ‘poor’?
Is it really easier to see a dentist. Atm it’s easier for me to see my GP than my dentist. I certainly dint want things to get worse!!
What’s the cost of dealing with taking money (not just a receptionist to do that but also an accountant, taking money to the bank etc)
What does it take so long to see a GP? Is it just because of people not turning up, or is it because there isn’t ebough GPs or again because there isn’t enough prevention or education done etc etc? Making people pay is nowhere near the best answer to almost problems. I’d rather solve the WHYs it’s hard to see a GP than dying to solve the issue by a quick fix/plaster over the cracks type of scenario.

NoParticularPattern · 25/01/2019 16:09

Jeez if GPs were like NHS dentists round here I’d have to travel over an hour to find one taking patients and have to sit in heir waiting room all day until they deign to see me. I’d not object to paying for appointments at all, but if they were anywhere as scarce as dentists are around here I’d be stuffed. No thanks

Lunde · 25/01/2019 16:10

I live in Sweden and pay 10-11% income tax for healthcare but we also pay as. It's around £15-20 to see the GP but if you miss an appointment they charge £30 plus a £5 admin fee. The maximum you can pay in any year for healthcare is around £95 - once you reach that amount you are issued a free card for the rest of the year.

hazeyjane · 25/01/2019 16:11

The last time I missed an appointment it was because they'd booked it at a surgery in another blimming town!!

I don't think people should be charged for appointments - what about people with mental health issues, underlying confitions, on going health issues, carers etc....all of these things can mean more trips to the gp.

There are also so many people who are just over the threshold for low income, and I think we would see an increase in people avoiding going to gp through not being able to afford it.

Imagine having a symptom which could put you on the pathway for cancer testing, but putting it off because it's been a tough month financially.

that it meet the needs of everyone
that it be free at the point of delivery
that it be based on clinical need, not ability to pay

TakeMe2Insanity · 25/01/2019 16:11

Not sure what utopian part of the country you live in but it is near impossible to get an nhs dentist appointment let alone register as a new nhs dental patient.

Our gp service offers phone consultations etc to ensure acutely ill people are seen etc. If people had to pay it would penalise the middle income again who have enough but not enough to be on benefits etc.

FridgeFullOfChocolate · 25/01/2019 16:11

That isn't very fair, so those who work pay twice and those who don't get it free? Err how about no. Also if you have lots of health complaints you'll be paying out lots.

The entire point of the NHS is to provide healthcare that is free at the point of service for people in the UK. The only thing I could get on board with is maybe charging those who just don't show up and waste time and resources. Also health tourists who knowingly travel here to use the NHS for free treatment, they should be charged too.

Original poster
Gaballout · 25/01/2019 16:13

Nice to hear about Sweden. Most of Europe don't have this big issue with paying and their health services rank far far higher than ours...

OP posts:
pandechocolate · 25/01/2019 16:15

How do you prove that you never received a letter?!

If the letter is on the system and it is dated then it's fair enough to assume you have received it royal mail don't fail to deliver on 9 out of 10 occasions. If you are expecting an appointment, and don't receive a letter, you can ring to find out the info. If a letter isn't on a system, it's also fair to assume it hasn't gone out.
The sort of admin error that I am thinking of is admin staff putting the wrong dates for surgery etc on letters. I know people that this has happened to, and it ends up costing the NHS thousands.

It's not exactly hard to charge people £15 an appointment

I work full time and pay my taxes. I also have a chronic medical condition. Whilst I was being diagnosed, I was going to the GP weekly for 6 months. Why is it remotely fair that I would have had to pay £360 during those 6 months for my appointments, plus my tax deductions, plus my prescriptions, when I haven't elected to have an uncurable condition? I will have to go in the future, too.
When I'm not working full time, which will be soon as we are expecting, we will be cutting down hard on finances as my husbands income will be our only income when I'm on maternity leave (I'll get SMP), after that I'll go part time as we simply can't afford childcare 5 days a week. My husband isn't on a particularly high wage, but we won't be entitled to benefits, and will get by one way or another.

Why is that fair? If you work, you put money in to the system and are already entitled to a lot less (obviously) e.g. no help with childcare costs until kids are 3. Why penalise working people even more?

I'm in no way slating those that don't work and do claim benefits - we all have reasons that might mean we fall on hard times or can't work for various reasons, but it would just be another nail in the 'reasons you are better off not in work' coffin.

So in short....just £15 for an appointment really isn't a small amount.

PerfectPeony · 25/01/2019 16:17

Nope I think there are some NHS’s treatments that shouldn’t be available for free but GP appointments isn’t one them.

I think it would cause a lot of issues especially with obtaining contraception etc.

Gemi33 · 25/01/2019 16:17

Due to various long term conditions I have to have lots of regular appointments - there's no way I could afford £15 every time. It sounds like you don't have to go very often which is lucky for you but I don't think you really understand the implications of what you are suggesting for other people.