Falling out over £50

[ToddlerDecibels]

My DM and her sister have had a falling out over a sum of money (£50)

DM owed my aunt the money as my aunt has been subsiding her with bits and bobs until her benefits money came through today. DM does a hell of a lot for her sister (she does the vast majority of her housework for her, does her shopping etc)

DM is on benefits due to a MH disability, £50 is a big chunk of the amount she gets which she receives fortnightly.

Aunt frogmarched (DM's wording not mine) her to the cash machine today to withdraw the £50. DM is now upset and stressed because whats left in her account is not going to last another fortnight, has left her short on an important bill and she wanted to be able to pay the amount back in instalments.

Who, if anybody, is being unreasonable? Both are annoyed. DM for aunt wanting the money back in one chunk, and aunt because DM was visibly annoyed.

Your mother is in the role of indentured servant / sharecropper / coal miner owing debt to the company store. And it’s bordering on slavery. As others have said, this is a safeguarding issue.

Would it be possible for me to raise it as a safeguarding issue if my mum denies there's any problem though?

The sticking point is although she has a disability she still has capacity.

She doesn't listen to me so I think she needs to hear it from somebody with some professional expertise/authority.

I think if you pose it to a social worker as financial abuse or coercive abuse and you worrying that her capacity may be diminishing with age, it could spur action. Depending on her age, she should probably get testing for light dementia and other stuff too.

Also mention the indentured servant / slavery angle and fully explain the abusive dynamic taking place. This would be worrying for any social worker.

Thanks I'll contact adult social services in the area and relay this to them. Hopefully somebody can help

At the going rate for cleaners I would imagine your aunt has had far more than fifty quid's worth out of your Mum. Aunt sounds exploitative and very mercenary.

If my sister needed £50 I'd just give it to her - there wouldn't be any lending, we help each other out.

It does sound as if your Mum is vulnerable and I would speak to social services - financial abuse of vulnerable people is something they frequently have to deal with - there might be some way of making you jointly responsible for your Mum's finances so her sister wouldn;t be able to frogmarch her to cashpoints, she have to go through you as well.

I've got the number for adult social services now so I'm going to give them a call.

I'm more than happy to take some responsibility for mums finances and keep her card with me if she agrees, the only concern I have with that is how to respond to the aunt when she then comes to me and asks for the money that mum "owes" her.

If I were to say no sorry you're not having it I'd become the bad one which I don't mind so much but if mums accepting that she owes the money then it's more complicated.

There needs to be clear communication between mum and aunt about what mum will be paid for the cleaning but currently there is none.

Even if there were clear communication between them, your aunt would just abusively steamroll over your mother anyway. You’ve tried this before and she’s just pushed past the boundaries you tried to lay down. There needs to be a third or fourth party intervention by the government to show your aunt that she’s being watched and that what she’s doing is possibly illegal abuse.

Your cunt is taking advantage of your mother completely, this is awful. I hope SS can help you out because in no world is it ok to treat someone as a slave for a LOAN then demand the money back in one go when they just can't afford it. This would be wrong to do to a stranger, to do it to your own sister is shocking.

@ShartGoblin

😂

I phoned adult social services, explained briefly what it was about and have been told somebody is going to call me back over the next couple of days.

I've sent a direct message to my aunt reiterating once again that she shouldn't have mum cleaning for her and then building up a debt on the side. If she wants mum to clean for her then she's entitled to proper payment for said cleaning, and it shouldn't be undertaken for the sake of a loan.

She replied and said she agreed.

I don't buy it but I've had my say so hopefully somebody from adult services will come on-board and do the same.

Well done, @ToddlerDecibels. I hope that bit of action makes you feel a bit better for stepping in once again. I think maybe a next step to take is to screenshots of all their conversations on your mum’s phone to preserve for the social worker. It seems like your mum is prone to denying anything is wrong due to shame.

Check with your mum and see if your aunt has asked for money back next week. I’m appalled at your aunt. She’s financially abusing your mum. Your mum is effectively working for her for nothing.

Unfortunately mum doesn't know how to text so I can't get screenshots of their conversations as they're all had in person or on the telephone itself

As it stands aunt took the £50 from mum so mum doesn't 'owe' her anything now, unless she has re-borrowed again since yesterday which I doubt as mum does have a little bit of money left.

I'm seeing her Friday morning so I'll be giving her some money then.

You DM has mental health issues, perhaps her ds needed the money, I would let them sort their own battles.

sit down both down and suggest the aunt pays your dm for her cleaning work.
even if not the going rate then something.
why does your dm clean? does it make her feel useful?

otoh, if they have fallen out, perhaps this will break the vicious circle?

If I encountered this situation at work, it would be referred to the safeguarding lead and potentially the police could become involved. It's abuse.

DM does a hell of a lot for her sister (she does the vast majority of her housework for her, does her shopping etc)

This is entirely irrelevant to the situation unless there was an agreement that the £50 is being given in payment for that work or as a token of the sister's gratitude.

It's not that unreasonable not to want to be paid back in instalments. Frogmarching an adult sister to the cash machine is pretty unreasonable but it also sounds like the aunt was uncertain as to when she was going to get her money back. Perhaps she also needs the money!

In any case, it's a pretty pointless debate. The more important question is what you can do now to help your mother until her benefits are paid.

You say your mum should come to you for money but then say you'd on,y give her a tenner here and there, and you would put conditions against it, ie not for cigarettes, possibly this is why your mother doesn't come to you, because she knows you won't give it to her and her sister will. Because if you were willing this could easily be resolved, give your mum the fifty quid and ask for it back in installmenents.

I suspect this is where it's getting diffficult, your mum wants money and her sister is the only one who will give it to her. Your aunt demanding it back like this could be one of two things, either your mum has been lax in the past of paying back, making promises and not keeping them and she's had enough, or she's thoroughly unreasonable. I don't think we have enough info to say.

The cleaning is a red herring, because your mum isn't being paid for it, the money she gets is a loan. She cleans for her sister and her sister loans her money, the thing they need to work out is the repayment agreement. And both parties need to stick to it.

I really wish would latecomers would RTFT before typing.

@ToddlerDecibels, maybe you could start training your mum to not answer the phone and let the aunt got to voicemail to leave a message. That would help a bit.

I think op that you could suggest that your DM has a written agreement, so she writes down that her ds asks her to do ironing for example for money.
So therefore she is being paid rather than being lent the money.
with her learning difficulties it might help her.
does her ds have learning difficulties too?