Falling out over £50

[ToddlerDecibels]

My DM and her sister have had a falling out over a sum of money (£50)

DM owed my aunt the money as my aunt has been subsiding her with bits and bobs until her benefits money came through today. DM does a hell of a lot for her sister (she does the vast majority of her housework for her, does her shopping etc)

DM is on benefits due to a MH disability, £50 is a big chunk of the amount she gets which she receives fortnightly.

Aunt frogmarched (DM's wording not mine) her to the cash machine today to withdraw the £50. DM is now upset and stressed because whats left in her account is not going to last another fortnight, has left her short on an important bill and she wanted to be able to pay the amount back in instalments.

Who, if anybody, is being unreasonable? Both are annoyed. DM for aunt wanting the money back in one chunk, and aunt because DM was visibly annoyed.

ToddlerDecibels what you seem to be describing is your aunt taking advantage of a person with learning difficulties along side mental health issues. This is can be considered a safeguarding issues.

In an ideal world DM wouldn't borrow money and yes anything borrowed needs to be repaid but her DSis shouldn't be taking advantage of her. The unpaid cleaning needs to stop.

Can you clear up op (might just be me), does she do things for aunt in return for aunt buying her stuff and then borrow additional money which she has to pay back?
Or is aunt expecting the money back for the stuff she buys her (even tho mum has cleaned for it)?.
If the latter then if i were you i would be tempted to get involved as sounds like aunt is taking the piss

Perhaps you could suggest to aunt that mum is paid for cleaning on a more formal basis?

I'm going to help DM out with her bill, she knows she can turn to us but is very reluctant to do so.

I've had endless conversations with her about not borrowing money from her sister and not being her unpaid cleaner, she takes it all in but the cycle still repeats itself.

It benefits aunt to buy things for DM because then DM is constantly indebted to her, and aunt gets a free housekeeper.

I've seen first hand aunt offer to buy things for DM without DM asking first, when she knows she's got no money.

I've never known DM to go to aunts place and say "can you lend me £10 - £20"

She never asks for cash.

They spend alot of time together so aunt knows when mum is short of something, she'll get her to do housework and then offer to buy whatever it is, and keeps notes of what she's spent on DM and presents DM with an 'invoice' when she gets her benefits money.

X posted with return
Tgats what happens when dh calls in middle of replying

Oh god OP your latest update . Based on your mums mh issues i really think you should get involved here.

Aek Aunt to present you with the invoices from now on, and see what she says to that....

Why an earth arent you defending your mother, who is vulnerable, to your horrid aunt? No way I'd let anyone, let alone family, treat my mother like that.

Call your aunty out on her behaviour.

And I agree this is exploitation of your DM.

An example would be:

DM goes to aunts house as she does most days, aunt will ask if DM is ok for shopping/electric/bills/coffee/tobacco

(I know the smoking is a problem but I can't force her to quit)

DM will say she's a bit short on whatever and then my aunt will say "if you do the floors / make my bed / Hoover the rug / change the litter tray then I'll get you some (whatever) until you get paid"

I have defended my mum, I've had huge failings out with my aunt about taking advantage before. I was no contact with my aunt until this Christmas for exactly this reason, by which point DM had said for the 100th time that she wasn't doing the cleaning or borrowing money anymore.

I've told my aunt not to lend mum any money / items in exchange for cleaning. Aunt has told me (and lied) and said she wouldn't.

Unfortunately my mum keeps going round there regardless despite telling me no end of times that she wouldn't.

Well that's sneaky, but marching her to cashpoint is bullying. Call her out on it. Sounds like it's deeply entrenched, what is your mum getting out of it, has she always had ld?

So aunt gets the housework done by your DM and gets the money repaid. She's exploiting a vulnerable woman. Shame on her.

I don't know what you can do other than sit the two of them down together and tell them that you're worried about DM not being able to get herself out of the debt cycle. So you've decided that from now on you and only you will loan (or gift if you feel able) her money for essentials. You don't want Aunt to bear the burden any more. You insist that they both agree to this, cause you hate seeing their close relationship suffer.

Aunt doesn't see the problem apparently because in her eyes she's helping out DM by lending her money, and DM helps her out in return by being her cleaner.

DM doesn't realise it's exploitive even though I've pointed it out many times, she downplays my opinion because she knows how I feel about the aunt, therefore I'm biased.

Xpost. I would be trying to get control of mums money by appointeeship sonaunt can't do this. Does mum have capacity? Or you could say you don't want to hear about it and let them fall out naturally.
It's hard but auntie is taking the piss

Would your mum give you her bank card so no one can make her take money out? You could dole out cash if needed? Or would she resent that?

what would your aunt say if you told her that in future she must take the amount your dm owes off her payment for cleaning - would she admit she doesn't pay? Might she see the unfairness? If not, definitely your dm should stop cleaning for her

Mum has always had learning difficulties yes.

I'm happy to be mums go-to for help and have offered no end of times in the past, I don't know what is said behind the scenes but mum will never ask me for anything. I suspect aunt has pulled the strings so that she remains the "help" and can keep mum in the cycle of debt.

They are extremely close.

The aunt isn't coming out covered in glory here.

This is a safeguarding issue. Your aunt is financially abusing your DM.

You really can't 'keep out if it' - you need to protect your mum.

Not sure how mum would feel about giving me her bank card but it's worth a try, I'll speak to her tomorrow.

It seems like whatever progress I think I make with DM in terms of talking some sense into her to stop cleaning/borrowing from her sister it carries on regardless because she listens to her sister more than me.

I try to advocate for mum but am constantly overruled by the sister, who is her next of kin. It frustrates me.

I agree I should speak to the aunt and tell her to take whatever amount off mums "bills" for the cleaning she does.

They have a co-dependent relationship and for whatever reason DM feels unable or is unwilling to alter the dynamics of the relationship or distance herself a bit.

DM has previously asked me not to say anything to my aunt about the cleaning / borrowing because sometimes she can do with the lifeline aunt offers (tobacco/food/whatever) at the time.

I'm in a difficult position because it infuriates me yet seems to 'work' for mum (in her mind) until payday comes and she's handing out big portions of her ESA.

No, you are legally nok and nearest relative for mental health/capacity assessment.
You can't withold bank card but you could be joint account holder or 3party on her account, or power of attorney with consent, but these may put you in a difficult position. May put aunt off, otherwise just make you complicit.
Some people can't be helped, if mum has capacity it's her choice but auntie is exploiting her. Hard for you op.

Indeed, technically mum does have capacity so I can't actually stop it from happening on her behalf

Mum asks me not to say anything all of the time, if i were to ring my aunt and get fired up she'd call DM who'd tell her there's no problem so I'd come off looking like the unreasonable one.