To email school AGAIN re religious assemblies

[pineapplepenthouse]

I have twins in year 4 both in different classes. I have expressed my feelings about not letting them be involved in religious assemblies or having anything to do with religion. My children are in different classes. Today for the third time my DDs has come home saying he has been included in the religious assembly.
I have strong feelings on this but other mums just say 'it's not a big deal' and 'it didn't do us any harm'.

AIBU?

It's a bit odd that up until now that the OP's DC have both been excused from religious worship and suddenly this isn't the case. Surely other staff members including the HT have noticed? The scenario doesn't make sense.

I'm not agreeing with it Elfin but there's several comments stating that she only wants to withdraw them from assembly and not all religious activities and that she never said otherwise when she quite clearly did. (And note my other comment about letting them decide their own beliefs).

@Monty27 "How do you suppose that would help his education?"

What does religion have to do with education, you know, Reading, writing, arithmetic? Maths? Religion is a private belief, it has nothing to do with education. It has no place in schools imo.

so you expect the school to have to provide staff to babysit your child because you want to pretend christianity, islam, hinduism, and other jewish religion don't exist.

YABU
Our schools struggle enough with funding and resources not to have to cater for everybody's whim. One parent will refuse PE because of the temperature, an other one refuse the concept of evolution so kids have to go somewhere.

You would do a much better job by explaining to your children that religion is just one belief, not shared by everybody. If only for their general knowledge, your kids should know what Easter, Diwali, Ramadan, Hanukkah are.

It's an assembly, not a mass.

Well maybe the op can come back and clear that up, I assumed not wanting her children to have anything to do with religion meant religious worship.

Whether the children would rather join the other kids in worship is frankly, neither here nor there, against the legal right of the op to withdraw her children from worship and a teacher ignoring that legal right.

Fwiw, I haven't withdrawn my children from religious worship but I would if it were as full on as at the op's school.

It's an assembly, not a mass.

Errr it’s a collective act of worship

I went to a non religious school in Scotland and remember singing a huge amount of songs about god. I could probably sing half of them still. Whilst it didn’t scar me and I probably would’ve rather been involved in the assemblies with my friends, looking back it feels unfair to leave children with the choice of being excluded or singing about a god they do not believe in (I certainly never did)

Doncorleone, OP reasonably expects the school to provide the staff to enable them to comply with their legal obligations. What is the problem with that?

And where exactly has OP said she wants to pretend different religions don't exist? She hasn't said she wants her children to be removed from RE or history lessons.

I'm a very clear atheist, I think that teaching the bible as fact is quite damaging. However, I feel that many religious teaching have great moral value and am keen for my child to learn about the variety of cultures and beliefs in the world in order to equip herself with enough knowledge to make her own decision. I reinforce this with "this is what some people believe" and developing respect for others beliefs but a kind strong enough to question and develop their own, informed, opinions. I think excluding them is taking away their opportunity to formulate their own opinion, it is important they understand religion even if they don't agree with it.

@derxa "How miserable for them. All their friends are preparing for an assembly and they are in a separate room 'reading a book'."

I would lay good odds that most other students envy the OP's kids and wish they too could get out of it. Even at my secular state school no kid liked assembly, and that was just boring announcements. Add in religion and the kids would be desperate to get out of assembly.

waffle, I work out the pagan origins of Christmas celebrations and Easter eggs by knowing the relevant facts. Check it out.

Religion is a private belief, it has nothing to do with education. It has no place in schools imo.

it has exactly the same place than history, geography, current events!
You don't have to believe in anything, but you have to be pretty thick to not see the impact of religions in the world everyday!

Learning how other people live, learning what they believe in, learning what their values are should be the most important thing you learn. Understanding and respecting others is what most ignorant idiots are missing.

What are you scared of? You can learn about others without being indoctrinated, most people manage to read about the Inca without feeling the need to start human sacrifice.

How are people still confusing religious education with religious worship it's bloody amazing - no one has objected to education - the issue is enforced worship!

wafflethewonderdog

Not that old chestnut. Both Christmas and Easter eggs have origins that have nothing to do with Christianity.

How do you work that one out?

OK lets look at Christmas, and why it is in the middle of winter. From what little we can garner from the bible (e.g. shepherds out watching their flocks rather than them being penned in) the birth of Christ couldn't have happened at the time of year we now celebrate it. However just about all religions at that time had a mid-winter festival which included gift giving and feasting, and it was Church policy to appropriate pagan customs (and locations for that matter) so people would be going to the same places at the same times which makes conversion easier.

Many of the customs we follow at Christmas are from the old pagan customs e.g. WTF has Mistletoe got to do with Christianity? Same for Holly and Ivy, greenery in the house, trees.

Also please explain what eggs and new born spring farm animals have to do with Christ dying on the Cross?

She hasn't said she wants her children to be removed from RE or history lessons.

then that's not really clear, my kids RE are in the religious assemblies, that's exactly what these assemblies are in their schools.

If she meant a mass, then its a faith school presumably? And I do have problems with people who complain about the religious aspect of a FAITH school!

DonCorleone WTF are you on about? Parents have a legal right to withdraw their children from religious assemblies, and it is the schools legal obligation to provide alternative arrangements. Nothing to do with 'babysitting'.

I’m just gonna put this out there for all the “I’m an atheist but I think religious teaching gives a good moral grounding” people:

I’m an atheist and I don’t respect other people’s religious beliefs. I do however respect their RIGHT to hold those beliefs. You should respect the OPs right not to want her children to take part in religious worship.

@wafflethewonderdog "'How do you work that one out?"

I thought most people know that almost all Christian traditions were stolen from the pagans? Yule was co-opted by Christians and turned into Christmas. Oestara was co-opted by Christians and turned into Easter. Christmas has very little to do with Jesus and it's history has nothing at all remotely to do with Jesus. It's a marketing concept actually by Coca-Cola. Truly. Google it.

“How are people still confusing religious education with religious worship it's bloody amazing - no one has objected to education - the issue is enforced worship!”

This baffles me too. I can only assume that it is so obviously wrong to enforce worship that in order to defend it people have to wilfully “misunderstand” the issue!

masterandmargarita, why should OP home educate because one teacher doesn't want to comply with the law? And what does turning off the internet achieve? OP has nowhere said she doesn't want her children to learn about religion, just that she doesn't want them to attend acts of worship.

I have no religious belief but I just left my children to make their own decisions. None of them have any religious beliefs despite the school nativity play, collective worship and RS lessons. They do have an understanding of religious belief though.

Without the faith and belief, it's all just stories.

iamkhaleesi, I agree that children should learn about religions. However, the place for that is in lessons where they can receive education on those religions. Attending daily acts of worship in one religion alone just doesn't achieve that.

@DonCorleoneTheThird It sounds nothing like any assembly I know. It sounds much more like mass.

Christmas is a marketing concept by Coca-Cola?! I think you're thinking of the colour of Father Christmas' outfit.
Christians did not turn Pagan festivals into anything. They wanted to fix key Christian festivals into the year and chose the timing of Pagan festivals, many traditions of which have persisted. You can't extend that to Christmas has very little to do with Jesus and it's history has nothing at all remotely to do with Jesus. That's just ignorant.

What are you scared of? You can learn about others without being indoctrinated, most people manage to read about the Inca without feeling the need to start human sacrifice.

DonCorleone, you are in fact supporting OP's point there. Children can learn about religions by reading and being taught about them, they don't have to attend their acts of worship every day. You would soon object if schools taught children about the Incas by requiring them to attend a full Inca ceremony every day.