To email school AGAIN re religious assemblies

[pineapplepenthouse]

I have twins in year 4 both in different classes. I have expressed my feelings about not letting them be involved in religious assemblies or having anything to do with religion. My children are in different classes. Today for the third time my DDs has come home saying he has been included in the religious assembly.
I have strong feelings on this but other mums just say 'it's not a big deal' and 'it didn't do us any harm'.

AIBU?

I just think it's had its day Llizzie and with ever dwindling Christian followers it won't be long before moves are made to disentangle religion from the State.

How can you teach children about the Monarchy, Government and law if they do not have at least a smattering of Christianity

You can teach through, erm, teaching rather than through worship. Like you can teach about colonialism without nabbing a stretch of land.

Ilizzie we aren't talking about LEARNING, that can be done in RE lessons. There is nothing the OP has said that excludes her DC from reading the Bible - or the Talmud, or the Quran, or any other religions sacred texts

It contains the most information about ancient humans and the way they lived. Nope, though it does contain a lot of information about how one particular group of people (Jews and later Christians) lived from their point of view. The vast amount of Greek and Roman literature contains much more information about the world at large in those times than the religious text of one small nation.

A child has to choose a career sooner or later: how are they meant to do that? WTAF has the Bible got to do with choosing a career? The vast majority of careers available today didn't actually exist in Biblical times e.g. no engineering, no IT, no call centres, no pilots or lorry drivers.

Every country in the world bases it's laws on the ten commandments. Do they? The first 4 commandments are all about worshiping the Jewish God e.g. no others but Him, keeping His day holy, no idols, no trash talking Him. The principles of the other 6 are widely recognised as common sense for living in a community, and are versions of laws that were around long before the time of Christ.

There is a wealth of history, All of which has to be taken with a pinch of salt and can't really be considered as historical fact as there's so much mythology mixed in. The number of years certain people lived, Moses and the burning bush, Noah and the Ark with all other people and animals being wiped out, Jonah being swallowed by a whale for days.

The Constitution of the British Isles states that only a Christian monarch can sit on the throne @llizzie What Constitution of the British Isles? - you do know that The REPUBLIC of Ireland is within the GEOGRAPHICAL region of the British Isles? It's a Republic of Ireland - no monarch and most definitely not the same monarch as there is in England. Really!!!?

We have a constitution?

Do you think sharia law where the death sentence and amputations are standard punishments?

Have you taken a gander at the old testament recently? Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth and all that? God was pretty angry in the old testament.

@llizzie Do you think sharia law where the death sentence and amputations are standard punishments?

Is that Sharia only? Have you actually read you bible?
Missed the bit about if two men are fighting and the wife of one grabs the genitals of the other to stop the fight then she is to have her hand cut off?

There are 36 crimes in the bible in which the death penalty is called for such as idolatry, magic, blasphemy and of course murder.
The bible tells us we can own foreigners as slaves. A man can beat his wife. A woman must marry her rapist. There's quite a few more that back Sharia Law right up.

Let me guess: But... but... but Jesus! New Testament! We can change bits we don't agree with in the Old Testament!!

Matthew 7:2 "Whatever measure you deal out to others will be dealt back to you" at no point does he state that god will deal it out.
In Matthew 15:4 Jesus says "He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die"
Despite Jesus never using violence himself, he never denies the state's authority to exact capital punishment.

Creambeforejam I was referring to my own degrees. Not yours. Sorry if you thought I was having a go.

There are 36 crimes in the bible in which the death penalty is called for such as idolatry, magic, blasphemy and of course murder.
The bible tells us we can own foreigners as slaves. A man can beat his wife. A woman must marry her rapist. There's quite a few more that back Sharia Law right up.

Fortunately nobody takes the bible that literally anymore, unlike the koran where the opposite is true for many.

llizzi
Have you got me mixed up with someone else? I said this country WAS Christian.

All these replies to the post. A veritable hornets nest. I haven't been stung yet though. It is wonderful to read the debate. I hope your replies stem from your experiences you have received from ?school assembly? and I would hope that you will enable your children to be able to debate on the subject when they are older. thelostTargaren has some points which I will respond to. Sharia law is taken from the Old Testament and there are many instances of punishments of the kind. It is one of the reasons why Christ came when he did. The Israelites were teaching a god of war and vengeance with harsh punishments. They had so many rules about what to eat, how to wash, etc. Jesus said on the laws about food when he was criticised by the pharisees: 'it is not what goes into a man that is bad, but what comes out.' Of course Jesus was very careful not to put himself into a position where he could be criticised about punishment. That is not why he came. When he was asked about paying taxes he picked up a coin and said:'Whose image is this?' and they replied 'caesars' and he said 'render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's'. Matthew 15.4 is a very complicated example. To understand that remark one would have to go back into the laws of Judah. He did indeed say that the punishment for cursing father and mother is death, because he was stating that was the law at that time, and he quoted that as an illustration as to how they contradicted themselves. In vs 5 he continues and explains: 'But you teach that if a person has something he could use to help his father or his mother and he says: 'this belongs to God' he does not need to give it to his parents. In this way you disregard God's command in order to follow your own teaching. You hypocrites!' It is in the context of his teaching about judging others. It is too easy to take things out of context.

What is scary about a priest introducing philosophy and ethics?
mostlydrinkstea: Well I would assume a hidden agenda, do you teach gods morality or secular morality? Because teaching the former to children would be, as I said, scary!

llizzies posts are exactly the reason why religion should not be allowed anywhere near young children, especially in school. Its just face palming giving religion a bad name, as if it needed any help!

@crimsonrose: the punishments are in the old testament. There is recorded in the Old Testament scriptures what the laws and punishments were thousands of years ago. At that time punishments were, I suppose, meant to put people off, and they were allowed to keep slaves in those ancient times. All those things are in the Old Testament because that is how the Israelites lived, the status quo of the time. It does not mean that we abide by the same laws now, nor does it order us to. The scriptures are statements of how the people lived, the judgements they had so that they could live as communities. We have moved on from there because we have the teachings of Christ. The Bible contains stories of life and every story ever written about anything has it's plot in the Bible. Not everything in the scriptures is about crime and punishment. Have you read the proverbs lately? The scriptures were the province of the theologians. If they had been given to science and medicine we may have had genetic engineering and cures for arthritis and so on, sooner.

“ If they had been given to science and medicine we may have had genetic engineering and cures for arthritis and so on, sooner.”
I don’t understand this- can you say more?

I'll kind of miss this thread when it's full.

llizie Like I said, have you mistaken me for someone else.....and why are you telling me things I'm not disputing. I'm a bit confused.

@llizzie you have 100% convinced me that I am doing the right thing. Thanks!

Have you read the proverbs lately? The scriptures were the province of the theologians. If they had been given to science and medicine we may have had genetic engineering and cures for arthritis and so on, sooner. comedy gold!

OP I am in Scotland so understand the issue. I never withdrew my children from assembles but I did draw the line when they were going to give a bible to every child in the assembly and went to see the HT. She was very apologetic and said there was this charity that funded a bible for every schoolchild & she thought assembly was the easiest way to dish them out. I explained I felt uncomfortable as linking the giving of the bible with an act of worship seemed to confer a status on the book, plus it made it tricky for a child to refuse.

HT was mortified. She told me she was an atheist herself and hated having to have a religious assembly but the last HMI report had criticised the school for not having sufficient opportunities for christian worship so her hands were tied. So rather than teachers eye rolling at parents that ask their children to be excluded, they are as likely to be eye rolling at you lot that insist on christian worship. Maybe all the christians on this thread are the dreaded 'that parent'

Walkingdeadfangirl - Depending on the age of the children and the ethical question we are looking at I might include autonomy, utilitarianism, deontological ethics (rules,) consequentialism and virtue theory. If asked I might say what my view is but that's not important. I'm there to encourage them to think about why they do or would not do something and why someone else might come to a different decision.

@llizzie, do you really believe that stuff or are you just trolling?

mostlydrinkstea:
In a class following a structured philosophy curriculum with a qualified teacher I wouldn't have a problem if they happened to be a priest.

If it was in a primary school assembly with the priest free styling on what Jesus/God says is right or wrong then its a big no no.

@Walkingdeadfangirl either that or Dot Cotton has joined MN!

How bizarre the comments are saying you’re silly and should just let it go.

The same posters would probably lose their minds if a Muslim or Jehova were sent into religious worships despite asking not to? 🤷🏼‍♀️

If they had been given to science and medicine we may have had genetic engineering and cures for arthritis and so on, sooner

I really don't get this, WTF is in the bible that could lead to genetic engineering or the cure of arthritis? There is nothing to suggest that pre-Christian people had anything like the kind of scientific knowledge that could lead to this kind of medicine. In fact, there are some branches of Christianity today that think things like these are meddling with God's work and are therefore sinful - even things like blood transfusions for some. And in the past just about all types of science were condemned as un-natural so against God. Anyone who was a healer and happened to be female would be condemned as a witch (unless it was pure midwifery).

You can't use the "that was the Old Testament, times have changed since then" argument and not consider that times have also changed in the 2k odd years since the New testament was written, the status quo of the time as you put it.

Love the idea of freestyling. This stuff takes planning! In the school I go into assemblies are based on the theme the head wants us to cover.