To email school AGAIN re religious assemblies

[pineapplepenthouse]

I have twins in year 4 both in different classes. I have expressed my feelings about not letting them be involved in religious assemblies or having anything to do with religion. My children are in different classes. Today for the third time my DDs has come home saying he has been included in the religious assembly.
I have strong feelings on this but other mums just say 'it's not a big deal' and 'it didn't do us any harm'.

AIBU?

Feeding a child a beefburger when their parent ordered vegetarian might be a better analogy. Probably won't hurt them but may give them tummy ache. Parental choice but they will want to agree with child as they become competent to decide. And school would look very bad if they decided to overrule parent's choice on that one.

It’s amazing really isn’t that people can’t grasp the simple fact that legally they don’t have to go and the teachers have to adhere to the wishes of the parent.

All the people going on about how it’s fine etc. That’s not the fucking point. Utter fucking stupidity all round on here.

I think the op needs to teach her children how to skive off assembly. I managed to and so did my offspring, not all the time but a lot. It's not difficult.

At the same time, assembly isn't going to hurt them so why make such a big fuss. The kids will eventually leave school and never give it another thought.

(I did like singing 'Jerusalem' sometimes, I found it quite moving.)

Well if assembly isn’t going to hurt, Why not have it at the end of school day and those that don’t want to attend get to leave school earlier & for those that it’s important they get to stay

Since when was asking the school to comply with its legal duties making a big fuss, jessstan2?

What about fiction, cartoons, Santa, fairies, make believe, pretend games, tooth fairy, Easter bunny, all ‘not true
But none of that are built on fear, hate, homophobia, discrimination or sexism are they now?
No wars have started from them, no kids disowned by family for not believing

You honestly can’t tell the difference between a community church and McDonald’s?
Well yeah, maccas dont discriminate
But they both essentially are trying to lure a customer into their business

ivykaty (I like your name), yes an end of school day assembly or even just after lunch might be a good idea - but no-one would be able to escape that so easily:-).

Saturdaynext, you have a point. I believe schools are legally required to have some sort of assembly. It's been a long time since my offspring went to school so am not up to date with all the rules and regs.

I think assemblies are important though- if we start making them optional then a large number of kids would not go.

My kis had heavy religious indoctrination at school ( UK- not a faith sschool school)
Religion also played a big part in assembly- prayers, worship, song, local clergy etc.
But assembly was also an important time to come together as a school community. Chilren would be recognised for their efforts and acheievements in front of their peers, awards and certificates, important announcements made, recognition of birthdays etc.

I didn't want my kids to miss out on that, and the only other option was to have them sit in another room with a member of staff, wasting everyon'e time and stigmatising my children.

I had already chosen not to send my kids to a fath school, but it seems difficult to escape.
Leaving religion out of school education would be a better option.

Schools by law have to have an assembly every day. The majority of these have to be of a broadly Christian character. The rest can be secular or of other faiths. Most schools ignore this requirement.

Parents have a right to remove their children from assemblies. If the parent has told the school that their children are to be withdrawn and the school does not comply then a letter to the head in the first instance and then a letter to the chair of the governing body on the second would be entirely appropriate. As an ex chair of gov I would recommend keeping the letter short and factual and quoting the relevant legislation.

Schools by law have to have an assembly every day.

Really? I have never heard that.
( Ex school gov also)

The school is in the wrong. Another letter and do cc it to the education department of your local council or whatever the next level would be (equivalent to Governors in England).

However I think that you are entirely wrong to exclude them from anything to do with religion (which I presume includes RS). Ignorance of other faiths is what breeds the sort of fear and misunderstanding which scrotes like Tommy Robinson draw people in with. Let your children CHOOSE. Knowledge is power and all that. I taught RE for years in a very factual way. This is what SOME people believe, this is what OTHER people believe. It’s not a cult children are being tricked into following at school. A well delivered RS curriculum can bring about understanding, compassionate and thoughtful children.

@MonaLisaDoesntSmile
I get my Intel on Catholicism from Catholicism. And it appears I know far more about it than you. Can you provide me a link to any 'official' Catholic source that backs up your claim about the Bible not being literal?

@Reteacher101
I'm not entirely sure what you're waffling on about but then that's an everyday occurrence with people defending religion.

I know you feel obliged to defend it because it pays your wages; but I am sorry you've wasted your life becoming an RE teacher.

For the record, I believe there's some worth in teaching children that religions exist, that they're all equally as daft, they all contradict each other and millions have died as a result of religion, that they contradict the science that pushes us forward.

I also think it's important to highlight the bad bits and bigotry (might take a while) and explain to kids just to not get involved - I fully support RE studies from that perspective.

@HRHeadache
Have you read the Koran? There's a lot of hate in it; why do you pretend there isn't? It's quite specific on the rules of Islam.

Yes it is the law that there should be a daily act of collective worship.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/281929/Collectiveeworshipinnschools.pdf

I have read some of the Qur’an, yes. There are also a lot of caring and thoughtful and respectful things in it, exactly the same as in the bible. The key to religious discord and understanding is always the interpretation of them. There will always be those who choose and use parts of these texts for their own ends. Learning about things doesn’t necessarily convert you. We teach a lot about World War Two, we don’t produce swathes of Nazis, soldiers or politicians!

mostlydrinkstea

Yes I know the law regarding worship, but you said that daily assemblies were a requirement by law- they are not.

"Collective worship" can be at class or group level.
Some assemblies have no religious content.

Our assemblies focus on social learning. Once a term the vicar pops up.

In other schools i've worked in there's just a discussion which may or may not have a religious theme from any of the main 5 religions.

Only the one religious school i've worked in had "proper" assemblies. But that's what they signed up for!

When a child is withdrawn it just means they sit about reading fir half an hour. The teacher or a TA then needs to be with them. In the past when a child has been withdrawn they've sat in the room with me while i've been doing my assembly interventions. Then I have to send someone to find out the notices and news etc and relay it back to said child. Some children just stood up at the prayer bit and trooped out and lined up outside.

Personally in my experience if the assemblies are not rigourously religious, just offset at home and let them stay. The main purpose of most assemblies in non religious schools is team building, social learning and notice giving. I am an atheist and let my own attend, possibly because I see from the inside how religion is not even mentioned in 98% of them, and when it is the children are free to ignore it or disengage.

Are you pulling them from any nativity, singing, assemblies or RE lessons too?

Circular 1/94 page 9 para 5.

Some schools interpret 'collective' to mean class. Many ignore it all together.

@janedoe5000

One reason for the reformation was because Catholicism doesn't believe in Sola Scripta whilst Protestant believe in it. Catholicism believes that the Bible isn't sola scripta for many reasons. Any good Catholic website will list reasons.

Basically the authority of the church lies in sacred scripture, magisterium and sacred tradition whilst Protestant authority lies in just sacred scripture.

We also take into account genre and wider context when reading the Bible.

In a charitable way, I would just like to say that you sound quite rude telling someone that they have 'wasted their life' through studying religion. I understand that you are hostile to religion but if anything that is making you sound quite bigoted.

Janedoe- you are being very rude in your replies, if you want to debate or put a point across fine - but there is no need to be rude

When a child is withdrawn it just means they sit about reading fir half an hour. The teacher or a TA then needs to be with them

As I posted upthread, we don’t have spare teachers or LSAs available for this, so they sit outside the school office and read.

I have to say it seems odd that the OP’s Yr4 child does “colouring in” during assembly, rather than reading.

I questioned the point of R.E. lessons when I was at secondary school, as did my atheist mum so she wrote to the school and told them that our family is not religious and I won't be participating in the lesson or assemblies. School accepted this but it angered some teachers who said I was disrespectful for not bowing my head to pretend to pray and not joining in singing hymns, I went to Latin with some older kids during R.E. instead until I got a bit older and wanted to know what the lessons were about, I just went to the lessons and they were quite interesting sometimes, I didn't bother going in on the day of the exam though, that would be too silly.

I think assemblies are important though- if we start making them optional then a large number of kids would not go.

It's not a matter of starting to make them optional - when they include an act of worship it has long been the case that parents are entitled to withdraw their children.

@Slamadramafamalam - i am half with you here - bloody 'worship' has zero to do with schooling and should be stamped out, along with any type of clergy / religious person coming to school assemblies to preach

RE is fine though, teaching theory and what people believe - that shouldn't be stopped, as long as the person teaching doesn't teach anything as fact thst isn't fact.

Saying no to all of the above I feel is wrong, the message that schools need is thst we won't tolerate children being told to worship their sky fairies of choice and pray and sing to them - it's bloody bananas if you step outside and think about it - imagine we go
To work every day and we have to worship some type of leader or sky fairy there - there would be an out cry - so why do the country/schools insist we do it still - no place in schools - thankfully my childrens' schools don't

HRHeadache, why do you assume that OP is excluding her children from everything to do with religion? She's specifically said she does not withdraw them from RE lessons.