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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think abusive men can change

76 replies

Justforthis45 · 18/01/2019 20:10

I have name changed for this but...
My DH has a fiery temper forever, he also had a drug abuse problem, weed when we met but previously coke. We met and married very quickly as obviously there was an awful lot about him that I loved. There was a couple of incidents of violence before we had children, the worst when I had a miscarriage and was just home from hospital, we had an argument because he was going out with his friends when I needed him and he pushed me hard and sent me flying across the kitchen floor, I called the police. I then got the ‘I will change I will change etc etc’ and gave in took him back and we had my DD.
When DD was 4 months old we had an argument, he was absolutely useless sleeping 10 hrs per night in spare room, getting up at 10am whilst I was up all night with our newborn Dd. I was totally shattered.
We had an argument when I was holding 4 month old dd and he went for me and grabbed my neck. I was terrified. I didn’t call the police though because I was scared of social services but I left him that night, called my parents and went to stay with them.
In this time he enrolled himself in an 8 month long abusers rehabilitation course, attended NA and gave up weed and alcohol and was prescribed sertraline. When I could see a real change in him I took him back and eventually we had my son.
I honestly feel like he is a completely changed man, in 4 years he is hands on dad, absolutely equal parent, does most of the domestic chores and is a patient loving father with the children. He is calm and loving with me and absolutely dotes on me.
I read all the time that abusive men can’t change but honestly I feel that he has, it took a long time for me to be convinced.
Has anyone else been in a similar situation?

OP posts:
NotANotMan · 18/01/2019 22:26

Perpetrators programmes can work. They just don't work very often. Combined with alcohol and drug treatment there is definitely a chance he could have changed but in your shoes I would definitely not have given him one!

sackrifice · 18/01/2019 22:39

If you have to pray that your partner won't strangle you this weekend, then to be honest you are not in a good relationship.

ree348 · 18/01/2019 22:42

OP I can't speak from experience but it sounds like he has gone through all the channels possible to get himself on track and that speaks volumes. It's just not a promise to change but a promise and a follow through!

You say he's a reformed man, so go with that. Obviously always be cautious but I also think you can be optimistically positive about your future with him.!

Justforthis45 · 18/01/2019 22:44

I don’t. I do not for one minute think he would be violent again, but I am not complacent and if there was any possible chance he would start smoking weed again that would be enough

OP posts:
userschmoozer · 18/01/2019 22:46

What counselling have you had? Your boundaries have shifted some distance.

PastaCake · 18/01/2019 22:47

My apologies @Justforthis45

I misread the thread. If you feel relaxed and able to live completely at ease with it then may be it is possible but I don't know if I could be as forgiving as you. I wish you the best.

Justforthis45 · 18/01/2019 22:47

Everything he did to change was his doing and not at my request and with no hope that I would take him back if he did it. He did the things he did to change because he hated himself and wanted to be a better person

OP posts:
Guineapiglet345 · 18/01/2019 22:52

He was violent towards you and you still went on to have children with him? Are you for real!?

Perhaps violent people can change but there’s always going to be the chance that they might go back to their old ways, so why would you risk it when there are plenty of men out there who aren’t violent?

Cheerymom · 18/01/2019 23:00

I do people can change from immature drug/alcohol behaviour to being adult. In no way do I think that atones previous behaviour but this does not seem like a 'magical thinking' situation from OP. I certainly would not like my behaviour from drink etc ( slapped a Bf on the face, told a child to 'fuck off'), to narrate my current behaviour. Only thing that worries me is the being on egg shells and almost waiting to sniff a bit of potential abusive behaviour, that's a very tentative way to be with someone.You Op have your own intelligence and intuition on this.I have known people on weed/alcohol to do really shity things and when they fully commit to a programme of help go on to have happy relationships. I know the normative narrative is that people don't change but reality has shown me otherwise.

BertieBotts · 18/01/2019 23:23

It depends why they are abusive in the first place.

It is also very rare. Read the book Why Does He Do That - it's written by a man who runs abuser programs. He said the programs have a 10% or less success rate.

The reasons why abusers abuse are very complex but boil down to this - violence is not an aberration or an anomaly of the human condition. Every single one of us could and would be violent given the right circumstances. Imagine fighting for your life - or your DC's life. In normal circumstances it would take extreme fear, rage, desperation and so on before a person would become violent.

Violence happens in a relationship context because EITHER

The abuser has an overgeneralised violent response and reacts disproportionately with violence to a situation which is not so desperate - usually because they have lived with violence for a long time and learned it as a survival mechanism or simply sees it as a normal, standard response. They have learned violence as acceptable. Or sometimes they might have a mental health condition which causes problems with inhibition or the way they experience and/or manage emotions.

and/or

The abuser experiences ordinary relationship events as disproportionate to what they are and experiences the extreme fear, desperation and so on necessary to incite violence. Usually because they have a skewed world view of what relationships are and often based in sexism, although of course relationship abuse sometimes occurs across or against gender norms in the case of same sex relationships or female on male abuse. This abuser greatly fears losing control and sees violence/fear as being their only choice to regain control. Almost ALL abusers have this problem even if they are never actually violent as it is the basis of coercive control. It is very very hard to educate somebody out of this mindset - but it's what abuser programs attempt to do.

Occasionally the misinterpretation of events can be caused by a mental health issue rather than a skewed world view.

or

They are a psychopath, they get pleasure from manipulating and hurting people. This one is extremely rare but also extremely dangerous.

If the sole cause is a mental health issue and it can be safely managed then this will sometimes solve the issues causing the abuse but beware - in some people it will simply never be able to be fully managed and they will never be safe to stay in a relationship with. They would need to be very self aware (which is often difficult). It's also important to be aware that even if a person seems to have changed in every other context, returning to a relationship with a person they have abused can bring about triggers for them which lead back into abusive behaviour patterns once more.

I don't think it's impossible for somebody to change, and if you've been living with your DH for several years following the sincere change then it sounds like it has worked for him and I'm glad for you, really, but it is important to be realistic and admit that the majority of abusers will not (often don't really want to) change. And that for somebody to change does take a long time and you can't assess that it has been successful after living with them for a few months. Sadly a lot of people fall for the tempting belief that they can/have/will and often in an implausibly short time and sometimes it can have dreadful consequences.

SemperIdem · 19/01/2019 00:00

No - violent people, male or female,do not change.

PurpleFlower1983 · 19/01/2019 01:16

My abusive ex changed for 3 years, then turned back into a monster.

Adversecamber22 · 19/01/2019 02:38

I would never fully trust this man and could not imagine even wanting to be with him even if reformed.

doubleshotespresso · 19/01/2019 02:59

OP To answer your question no I think it is rare if not impossible for abusive men to change.

It could and would take only a single split second incident on an "off day" and who knows how he may respond?

I honestly could not live my life or allow my children to have that 'what if" internal panic every time life throws up a bit of a challenge.

Finally FWIW- I am not sure that four years is a considerable enough amount of time to be certain enough he will not do this again as doubt will always remain in you. And the fact you even posted this clearly highlights you have a significant amount of doubt already....

theplot · 19/01/2019 03:00

Nah they just hide it better. The true him could come to the surface at any moment, I'd always feel fear. Never believe an abuser who says they will change

Gin96 · 19/01/2019 07:16

Why have children and waste your time on a man like that? Why not go and find a decent man in the first place, one that doesn’t hit you and takes drugs. There are decent men out there, I know as my dad, husband and son would never behave this way, they treat women with respect.

JasperKarat · 19/01/2019 07:28

I've delivered perpetrators programmes and prior to that worked with women whose partners were on them. For some men who genuinely want to change and take full responsibility for their behaviour they can work, but he must keep up the work and analysis is hard to change deeply held beliefs and learned behaviours and easy to slip back. Did you have access to a women's safety officer or partner link worker? Was it BBRP HRP or IDAP?

MzHz · 19/01/2019 07:36

I’m the first to say they don’t change, but I’ve done my fair share of Bancroftology, and he says that in extremely rare cases, if the man loses everything, has no support for the continuation of his abuse, it IS possible that he can change.

Albeit it’s a minuscule proportion of perpetrators who do change

Your oh has taken it upon himself to invest 8m in resolving this. He’s changed his demeanour generally and no longer exhibits road rage general anger.

Abusers do manufacture their anger, none of it is real, but he’s apparently choosing not to manufacture it.

It is early days, you’re never going to be 100% relaxed, but as long as you’re safe and everyone is happy and living healthily, that’s all that matters

Rooting for you! Hope that it does all work out, it does have all the good signs that it could.

YouSayPotatoesISayVodka · 19/01/2019 07:52

I have been in a similar situation OP. He changed. He then changed back and became even worse. This is very, very common.

Please be careful, he is stil a danger to you and your children. Btw can I ask, have you ever done the freedom programme? I think you would benefit massively from it.

EncroachingLoaf · 19/01/2019 07:54

Always being on guard is not exactly a healthy way to be in a relationship Confused

I guess there's a slight possibility he could have changed but I wouldn't be gambling mine and my children's safety on it happening, which appears to me to be what you're doing.

A shit awful man (who might strangle you one day if you annoy him enough) is not better than no man you know.

Senioritafamiglia · 20/01/2019 20:55

Op I feel your hope so strongly, I've felt it too.

I'm rooting for you as well - I hope it does work out.

And yes I would be on my guard if not actively going through options for not having him in my life in the event that old behaviours returned.

My father was abusive, seemed rehabilitated after separation, came back was an angel for three years and then a tyrant until I was 18.

My ex would have periods when I would catch myself thinking - wow he has not spat on me for years now! Or wow it's ages since he called me a bitch!

But then neither of them did any real work on my why they were abusive.

@bertiebotts wrote beautifully on the reasons.

All the best Flowers

Wordthe · 20/01/2019 21:22

2 or 3 years seems to be the standard amount of time before someone in a relationship shows their true colours, so it follows that after a transformative experience where he is rehabilitated there will be a honeymoon period of 2 to 3 years
long enough for you to feel safe and secure and to trust him again
then he'll be back with his old agenda making up for lost time

Pachyderm1 · 20/01/2019 21:25

I would still be frightened of him, all the time. But at least he did a rehab course - counts for a small amount.

buckeejit · 22/01/2019 12:50

I've started reading 'why be happy when you could be normal' by Jeanette Winterson. Interesting that she continued the cycle of abuse she suffered as a child by being violent to her girlfriends.

It seems that she no longer is, but does say she feels unable to live with partners & acknowledges that she needs her own space.

Easier done when there are no dc though

Neverender · 22/01/2019 13:13

It's very rare