Questioned under caution by TV licensing guy - I have a TV licence

[mainlymoderate]

TV licensing guy turned up on doorstep and was very aggressive. I was so frightened I just answered his questions.

We'd moved very recently and have a TV licence, just hadn't notifiied TVL. I checked with them and that's no problem. The guy found the licence but then didn't seem able to control himself and began to ask me questions and fill in what I now realise was a caution sheet. Thankfully two people who were quoting for works to the flat turned up otherwise he would have entered the property. He asked me all kinds of personal questions in front of them. I know it sounds pathetic but I was just so frightened and confused by the whole thing, I signed the sheet of paper which I didn't even know was a caution sheet. I called TV licensing and they said once he knew I had a licence he should have stopped.

I reported him to the Police and they were shocked I'd been questioned under caution when I'd committed no offence. I was in tears. I also feel such a fool for not having understood what was going on and allowing myself to be intimidated.

I read up on it afterwards and discovered that BBC outsource this to Capita. The DG of the BBC ordered an investigation into their tactics last year. But it looks as though they are still operating in same way and they actually target vulnerable people. I've always been a supporter of the BBC but this experience has shocked me. Should the BBC really be allowed to outsource to Capita knowing how they operate?

There is an ongoing scam by a group pretending to be from TV licensing

There's a scam email going round too, saying there's been "a problem with your licence renewal" and including a link to click on

For obvious reasons I didn't click on it

God what a horrible experience. Reminded me of something that happened when I was hoovering with a cylinder vacuum and answered the front door to an aggressive salesman. I said no thanks to his sneering questions and he put his foot in the door. I said 'See this? It's not just a hoover tube!..'
I think these days I'd be terrified like you, I was feistier then.
Sorry and hope something can be done.

@GottenGottenGotten I've told them too but they've just ignored it. Have you told them you don't need one for the second property?

The TV licence is an anachronism.

It is hard to believe that they maintain it in the modern world. It is only because of the very rich people who work there and their power to lobby parliament that it remains.

And as for the outrage when the rich employees were found out for tax avoidance (well seems more like evasion to me) compared to the way they covered other tax avoidance schemes, the words ‘hoisted by your own petard’ came to mind.

I called them because I had double paid for a year (which, of course, they failed to notify me about) and some jobsworth started questioning me about my address history. I had to be quite sharp to get the conversation back on track.

@vitalogy No, I have ignored it as I'm happy for them to waste their time coming out to see if there anyone there!

Hope long ago since you did it? They ask for it to be redone every two years, maybe try doing it again?

you can tell them you don't need a licence online, and the letters should stop

I used to advise people to do this because in the past it did work for us, but this year they don't seem to have taken any notice. We've had a number of letters and a visit from an officious twerp who was told, politely but firmly, to sod off. When I've phoned they've said they can see on their system that we don't need a licence, so I can only assume they're working on the principle that if they keep hassling us we'll buy one to make them go away.

I'm happy for them to waste their time coming out to see if there anyone there! Same here.

They ask for it to be redone every two years The time is irrelevant to them.

Mainlymoderate that really was disgusting for you, and in your own home, that was pure bullying and you definitely must take it further, absolutely no one has the right to talk to you like that.

Capita are Cunts!

I hate the licensing people. I do not have a tv, so I pay no license. I'm really happy enough to just use Netflix on my laptop, and even then, I rarely have the time for it.

Still, I would often have these guys knocking on my door.

Last time someone knocked, I think I frightened them a bit. I launched into a long tirade, with my best psycho eyes, voice raised to high heavens. I shouted that the television lies and brainwashed the masses, and besides, Satan lurks in every television.

They haven't been back since.

Can you report it to a Watchdog? Or national ombudsman, citizens advice bureau?

Aren't Capita the firm that sends bullying bailiffs round on behalf of local councils (who pay them a lot to do this) to threaten council tax arrears out of those who just simply don't have the money? Says it all....

Reading all these descriptions of the things that have happened to others as well really makes me think something has to change. But there have been previous investigations and nothing has changed.

Capita's contract with the BBC is worth £53m. How many licence fees of £150 would that equate to? So I presume that Capita are employed mostly to create a climate of fear, and I guess that by creating this thread I am helping them to do their work. They say that of course TVL employees shouldn't be aggressive but this thread says mostly otherwise.

I can understand that some people think this was a scam; it would be less scary in a way if it were. It isn't - this was a real TVL employee, I have had his ID checked by Capita who have confirmed it. Capita have responded to me but not in any meaningful way and nothing can take away the memory.

Have they confirmed they are not pursuing court action?

Agree that something should change but it hasn't and perhaps the abolition or the threat of abolition of the licence is the only way to rectify this.

But there have been previous investigations and nothing has changed. If the people that don't agree with the license fee stop paying it, it will change.

If the people that don't agree with the license fee stop paying it, it will change.

Exactly @vitalogy. 20 years time it will be gone because its an utterly outdated and outrageous tax. People will look back wondering why the hell we all put up with it for so long! We are happy with Netflix and catchup (non BBC obviously) and don't miss the BBC nor their rip off licence fee one bit!

I agree allornuffin

What’s really galling about the license fee (in case this thread ever gets under the nose of anyone who can make a change) is that although I pay it, I cannot watch BBC America stuff. This is generally the old bbc recordings like play for today, Robin Redbreast, Whistle and I’ll come to you, the Christmas ghost stories etc

So yeah. I and my parents and my grandparents paid for these shows to get made and I can’t even see them but America can. NICE.

Crapita are fucking bastards. The worst kind of bullies. A few years ago they had a campaign to intimidate people on Working Tax Credits. Some of my friends and I started getting threatening letters telling us we were being investigated for some random breach of WTC conditions, and graphically describing the awful consequences if we were found guilty. I was accused of having a partner I hadn't told them about, and had to prove that s/he didn't exist, which was tricky, especially as they wouldn't tell me who they thought s/he was. or what evidence they had; a friend had to prove that her business made enough profit to satisfy them, and apparently referring them to the tax return she'd sent them a few months earlier wasn't enough; or even to her tax credits assessment, which would be even easier for them to find, you'd think. They wanted to see everything. Another friend, a single mum with five children and fragile mental health, got the same letter and knew she was in trouble, because the little business she loved really didn't make enough money. She was terrified, and her mental health suffered badly. She still hasn't completely recovered. Yet another had to prove that she'd declared all her income (how? by making everyone in the world swear under oath that they hadn't paid her in cash or bitcoin or cake?).
At best it was frustrating, a pointless waste of time, yet more paperwork to add to the teetering pile, yet more hoops to jump through just to get permission to get on with our lives. At worst, it was terrifying, destabilising, because it was so random, and so intrusive, and the letters were so hostile. It felt like they were trying to catch us out. It felt threatening. Disempowering. And it wasn't even face to face.

Intimidation is a powerful and very effective weapon. Never blame yourself for falling victim to it.

They can question you under caution, as the details they take can be used in any court case against you - this is why they make it clear that you are under caution, but they don't always explain this well . And they certainly don;t make it clear that they are not entitled to interview you under caution! You are under no obligation whatsoever to speak to them or let them into your home without a warrant from a judge. They obtain these only very rarely and need substantial evidence to get one.

They rely on you not knowing your legal rights, allowing them to come in or allowing them to question you on the doorstep. You are perfectly within your rights to tell them to bugger off - then write to them stating you withdraw their 'implied right of access' to the property. Then they're not even allowed to come through the gate to know on the door. I've had to do this when they wouldn't stop hounding me and sending round a bloke who was wider than he was tall to bang on my door, terrifying my kids.

The ex police officer who said they can't question you under caution isn't correct - but they certainly can't arrest you or compel you to speak to them. The same is true of DWP/HMRC fraud staff - they can also interview you under caution (they must provide you with a copy of the PACE handbook is requested - when I worked in the same building as them they lost their handbook once and panicked as they couldn't interview anyone without it legally! Are TVL enforcement required to do this if requested, I wonder?). Not sure who else can, but it's not just police who can do this.

almostfamousme Jeez I remember those letters, a couple of women at work got them. Didn't know it was Crapita. Explains a lot!

He is an utter bastard and I hope he gets his comeuppance.

I fought TV Licensing/Capita for years, on principle. Twice I have achieved 'ex gratia' payments from them (£50 each time) as apology for their actions. Again, the fight was on principle so the money was an unexpected bonus.

I have never had a TV licence and won't ever have one. I don't watch 'live' broadcasts or the BBC's catch-up service (BBC iPlayer?), so I don't need one.

Yes, I have a television. Without it I wouldn't be able to be watch DVDs or videos; it's used as a 'monitor' rather than as a television. I don't need a licence.

These are the facts (and I can point to, or provide, proof of each of them):

1. The BBC uses a third party private company to collect the licence fee; this is most often (and is currently) Capita but occasionally it's another company.

1. As a private company, the employees of Capita have no more rights than any other citizen. They may call at your front door (via the common 'implied right of access', unless you revoke this) and speak to you, but they cannot do more without your express or implied permission.

1. If the BBC/Capita (the name 'TV Licensing' is owned by the BBC but is just that: a name, and the third party is given permission by the BCC to use it) alleges that you are watching 'live' broadcasts or their catch-up service without a licence, the burden of proof is on them. That is to say, they need evidence. Without evidence they cannot legally obtain a search warrant and they cannot take you to court.

1. The evidence produced in court in these cases is either a signed 'confession' (the interview notes taken at the time by the Capita employee whom you allow into your house to ask questions and 'test' your television and which you are then asked to sign), or a doorstep admission that you have a television and don't have a licence. Either way, it's your signature which convicts you - and you don't have to sign anything.

1. Telephoning Capita and/or the BBC, writing or e-mailing either of them, engaging in any way at all with them may or may not stop them harassing you, although only for a while. It's random (see the posts on here...), depending on how your call or letter is handled at the time by the employee concerned. Basically, it's a waste of time. You don't have to interact with these people.

1. The BBC/TV Licensing have two ways of assessing whether or not a premises is licensed. Firstly they have a map (it's highly inaccurate) of the country with all the buildings marked on it. This is cross-checked with databases showing ownership/residency details. Secondly they rely on people informing them of having sold receiving equipment (this is not so much used now) and, thirdly, people themselves buying a licence and then stopping. No evidence from the infamous 'detection vans', if these vans actually do anything more than the basic scanning for a signal, is used in prosecutions.

1. Sometimes actual licence evaders are caught by a Capita person creeping up to the house and observing through a window or open doorway a television being watched. However this is a dodgy wicket for them, particularly as Capita employees have been caught faking this sort of evidence in the past. However, obviously, if you're watching a television in your house and you don't have a licence you are breaking the law (Broadcasting Act 1990, as amended) and that's another matter.

So your best course of action is to have no dealings with TV Licensing at all, if you don't need a 'television' licence (a misnomer, probably deliberate - you may own broadcast-receiving equipment quite legally without a licence; it's the reception of broadcasts which requires the licence).

Don't respond to their letters, don't telephone them or write to them, don't interact with them on the doorstep.

If a Capita employee comes to your door, simply say something like "Please leave the premises" or "Go away" (or some less polite variant...) and close the door. If they thump on the door or remain on the premises, telephone the police and tell them you are being intimidated by an unknown trespasser; mention if you are particularly vulnerable (if you are: a woman alone, have children in the house, are elderly, are frail or incapacitated, are on medication for anxiety/depression, or suchlike).

Then you have put the ball firmly in TV Licensing's court. No evidence: no search warrant, no court case, no conviction.

If you interact with TV Licensing you will always have them on your back (you might, of course, in any case - but you certainly will if you interact).

If you feel angry, write to the newspapers or try and persuade a consumer affairs programme (possibly not a BBC one...) to take up the matter - they do very occasionally. Just don't do the anger bit in engaging with TV Licensing and/or the BBC - it's bad for your blood pressure.

CoffeeMilkNoSugar - Brilliant (and so tempting...)!

An update for everyone who was supportive; I have received an apology and an offer of compensation. It's little enough given what happened, but that is how it has all ended. Thanks again to all those people who helped me out with positive thoughts and suggestions!

Oh well done OP for standing up for yourself. I hope that brings a tiny bit of closure and that the horrible bully who did this got their arse handed to them.