A video that looks at both sides of dog bites

[Soubriquet]

Please do watch this. And if you have children, teach them how to read the signs of a dog who doesn’t want to be messed around with.

As an adult, learn the signs yourself and intervene as soon as you spot the dog starting to show signs

And never leave a dog and child alone together

link

My two year old was stood stock still and got bitten, dragged to the ground and along while I was screaming at the stupid bitch who couldn't control it to get it the fuck off my baby. It was 4 months ago and he is still petrified of dogs and bears the scar. Luckily just on his arm, through three layers of clothing and not his face as he would've been ripped to shreds.

My kids are grown up now, but I walk my two Frenchies past the local first school fairly often, and have been impressed that 99% of the children will come and ask me first whether they can stroke them. It feels like the kids are more educated.

My neighbours dog attacked me when I was 5. I was blue lighted to A&E because I had been knocked out when he dragged me to the floor. Technically it was my fault. They had a great big dog, we had 2 big dogs too so I was used to them. I used to hug their dog every time I saw it, and had done for a long time, in front of them and my parents. Dog never showed any signs of aggression or that he didn't like it. One day he just didn't like it and that was that. My parents were at the bottom of our driveway but this happened right next to our neighbours. Their first reaction was to run away and left me, a small child, being attacked and bitten by their dog. My dad pulled it off me while my mum rang 999. The next day when I got home, neighbours brought a box of chocolates and kept telling my parents that I approached their dog from behind and threw my arms around his neck. The dog was old so it didn't hear me coming so it was all defensive. They blamed me and my parents for the incident, but I think there was blame on all sides.
The dog wasn't to blame. It's a dog. Yes it shouldn't have attacked but if it felt threatened then I understand. However if the dog was old and deaf (funny how this hasn't been a problem in the weeks before this event) then he shouldn't have been off the lead and sitting at the end of my driveway while his owners pottered around in their garden (huge bush between so they couldn't see him).

OP I can't see the video because I don't have a facebook account

I have been trying to teach my son dog etiquete, and have no clue where to start other than we dont approach or touch dogs unless owner has invited us too and dog has approached

Is this right?

Sometimes hard when he is 2 and dogs come to us and owner still far so I pick him up and look at dog from my arms?
Any advice appreciated

Oh! And never touch or distract dogs at work

There aren't 2 sides.

Children matter more than dogs.

Owners should have dogs under control at all times, even if it means them wearing a muzzle.

Parents should also teach their children to not be entitled little shits
We had a gorgeous, very cute, but blind small dog who I did used to walk at quiet times he had a perfect temperament and in his seeing days had been used to small children.

I was walking him once when two small children literally jumped on top of him and I said get off and they ignored me and I had to pick them up to get them off him and their mother shouted at me as “they love dogs and wanted to say hello”
Please explain if that would have been my fault if that dog bit.
Everyone should know basic signs. Very very few dogs attack unprovoked. And agree with the above, it’s not a moral judgement

Parents should also teach their children to not be entitled little shits

Perhaps so - but it's not the kids' fault if they don't know. Dogs are only dogs. The onus has to be on the owner to keep them under control.

Yes the dog owner should have their dog under control but as parents it is your responsibility to make sure children don’t do things that are dangerous.
You wouldn’t not tell your child to look both ways before crossing a road because the onus is on the driver to stop. Of course it is but they might be looking at a cyclist who they aren’t sure is about to pull out, or checking their rear view mirror for a split second.
The onus is on the owner of the dog but it is good parenting to tell children to leave unfamiliar dogs alone

Parents should also teach their children to not be entitled little shits
Yep
That is the kind of stuff SIL would do
I am trying to teach my DC to do what I explained above and then her much older DC approach random dogs and touch them etc. After climbing fences with signs saying "don't climb"
So making it really hard to show my DC how he should behave
No more walks with her

The onus is on the owner of the dog but it is good parenting to tell children to leave unfamiliar dogs alone

Absolutely, but the OP is saying we should be teaching our children how to understand dogs, learn to read their body language, know when the dog is happy and when it's had enough etc., and that is unreasonable.

This is the way we see it. We dont have dogs, but I think it takes responsibility in both parts.
I want DC safe
I also want him to love animals
I teach him how to behave with wildlife and pets
It is not a fight to blame one side or the other

Owner should be responsible but parents should be as well, it is rude and dangerous to approach strangers' dogs.

I want my child safe so I teach him, because I dont know if all dogs and owners can be trusted and because I want him to be kind and respectful

I dont like it when dogs are not on a lead where they shouldnt
But that has nothing to do with how I am raising him

Perhaps so - but it's not the kids' fault if they don't know. Dogs are only dogs. The onus has to be on the owner to keep them under control.

Owner and parent

I was raised around dogs. My parents firmly drilled into my siblings and me the rules for behaving around dogs. When I was 7, I approached a dog I didn't know. It was chewing a bone. I tried to pick up the bone and I was bitten. My mum really told me off for disobeying the rules I knew so well. I didn't do it again.

As a teacher of young children, I teach them every year, and before school trips, the rules for behaving around other people's dogs to keep themselves safe.

Yes, in an ideal world, dogs wouldn't ever bite, but the reality is, sometimes they do, so you may as well be aware of the warning signals.
In an ideal world, rapists wouldn't exist, because men would control themselves. In reality, rapists do exist, so I don't walk alone at night. I'm not saying it would be my fault if I were attacked when walking alone at night, but in the world we live in, I can take steps to protect myself.

I hope I've expressed this ok...

It's not up to me to keep your dog under control and to read it's body language.

Keep your dog on a lead and away from children. Your biting machine your responsibility.

What MoreCheese said.

There is no golden mean here. Children deserve to be children and to be safe in the world. No one has a need or a right to get a potentially dangerous animal and impose it on others. Anyone with a dog needs to be 100% in control of it at all times.

I've had dogs charge me when I'm out running. Once I had someone say, 'Oh it's because you're wearing shorts.' No, it's because you're an idiot not controlling your dog.

A friend of mine is unfortunately facing potential criminal charges because her dog bit someone on a walking path.

I can't talk to her about it. She's full of excuses like, 'Well the guy could see the dog was just a puppy and he passed too close to her and she was giving off clear warning signs...'

Dude, this guy was out for walk. He saw you with a dog on a lead and assumed you had it under control.

It's like my lovely friend has morphed into a nut on this one issue.

Notso but dogs are everywhere and it is unlikely to hope that your DCs will never come across any dogs in the next 90 years. You can also justify not teaching them to swim because you don’t take them to pools, but are they likely to be able to stay away from water for the next 90 years?

Yes, that is exactly my point. It takes practice and repetition for DCs to learn how to behave around dogs so they are safe. Again you are turning it to blame, e.g. “you cannot expect...”. I am not expecting DCs to be infallible, but that is no reason why you shouldn’t try to help them get it right most times.

Neither DCs not dogs are morally responsible for their actions, but parents and dog owners are responsible for educating DCs and dogs to be as well behaved as possible with each other.

if a dog runs up to you, fold your arms and turn your back. No running, no screaming.

This sounds reasonable (apart from the fact it doesn't always work) until you consider how many times we are approached by off-lead dogs on a normal trip to the park or woods. My kids have been taught to leave dogs alone and would never approach them, but it seems VERY few owners extend the same courtesy and instead rely on bellowing 'He's friendly, he just wants to say hello' in lieu of actually calling them back, and my kids and I are fed up with it.

They don't particularly want to have a dog's face pushed into theirs, they don't want dogs bouncing up at them and putting their paws on them and having to stop what they are doing every five minutes to deal with a poorly trained dog. I am allergic to dogs so try to avoid touching them unless absolutely necessary as it makes my hands come out in a rash and I'm fed up of having to grab dogs that are in my sons' faces when I can see that they are starting to feel uncomfortable.

It's unrealistic to expect children to exert this level of self-control when they are being approached so frequently - I have and will continue to teach them how to behave, but I really think that there needs to be more pressure on owners to minimise the risks by not just letting their dogs charge on ahead of them where they can't see what they are doing or across a park towards a child with only a vague attempt to catch them up or call them back.

You're 100% right Dojo. I've taken to just bellowing, 'GET YOUR DOG' when this happens. Twice I've picked up a rock and then the owner came hustling over. There needs to stronger social pressure on dog owners.

Very very few dogs attack unprovoked.

Remembering my childhood, I think this was literally true, but I'm not sure how often it was because they couldn't get past a gate/fence to do so. Virtually every suburban house where dogs were allowed in the front garden, they would run to the gate and bark aggressively at every passer-by.

I would usually be passing on a bicycle, and as a primary-age child worked out my own rules of dog psychology, to deal with those that came onto the road or pavement to chase me. The first was to convince them I had no fear, as fear would encourage them. That required stopping immediately. (It was sometimes difficult to stop quickly enough if on a bicycle, and the only time I actually felt teeth it was from an Alsatian who had run straight out of a driveway, giving me very little time to react, I think he got me just before I managed to stop.) After that, I'd instruct them to bugger off, but in a bored and irritated tone, not angry or aggressive. I'd experiment with walking slowly away, which would usually induce them to start chasing me, but as soon as they did I'd look around and give them more instructions. (They'd stop approaching as soon as I looked back at them and made eye contact.) Eventually I'd get some way down the street, and they would lose interest. (Possibly because they were in part being territorial, so I was of less interest the further away from their home I was.)

You all seem to know about dogs so can you tell me what I did wrong in this situation?

I was at a friend's house at the weekend and her dog was being boisterous. He was leaping up at me, putting his paws on my stomach. Friend said he wanted to play with me and if I didn't want to play, to move away and turn my back. I did and went to stand in another room. He followed and kept leaping at my back. Friend shouted "NO" and "DOWN" at him. He bit my leg. Friend said it is a "love bite" and he was just trying to play with me. Dog is 3 years old.

It is not a bad bite as I was in layers but I have a big bruise and lumps under the skin.

What was I supposed to do? I'm worried about going round again.

I think the point of this particular video is being a bit lost here, in that it is really mainly aimed at people who have dogs and children in their own homes (rather than those who might meet them outside).

For those who do choose to have both, it would be hugely beneficial if they learned to see the warning signs in the video - and even better, if they managed to instil appropriate boundaries in both the dogs and the children in the first place.

Whoever is 'at fault' if a dog bites a child or an adult, surely it is better to avoid the situation in the first place. There are obviously idiotic dog owners in the world, just as there are idiotic parents who would allow their children to hurt dogs and then complain if the dog reacted, but I don't think that is who this video is addressing.

Clearly your friend is at fault there, CilantroLarry.

Friend says that her dog "nips" when he wants to play. Is this what some dogs do? I know puppies mouth but this isn't a puppy. Apparently, he usually nips your bottom but went for my leg instead. Didn't feel like a bloody "nip".

It takes practice and repetition for DCs to learn how to behave around dogs

And how does someone with limited contact with dogs do that exactly?