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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel uncomfortable with this?

96 replies

Writingtrash · 13/01/2019 16:56

For background: attended Friend A's event with mutual Friend B, event was held at Friend A's parent's house, lovely big place, lots of family and friends, huge buffet.

Friend A has a nine year old DD. A's brother is quite a bit younger than her, mid twenties. He's very energetic. I don't know how else to put it?! He wouldn't leave the DD alone, teasing her verbally, this then escalated into putting his foot out to trip her, chasing her etc. At one point he actually had her on the floor, "just messing about" but essentially wrestling. She was on her back, he was sitting on her, arms pinned, and was going "try to get up, go on, try to get up". His parents and older relatives were smiling indulgently, and Friend A looked a bit awkward but said nothing. The little girl was saying 'ow, you're hurting my wrists" which made him lean down harder and tickle her with the other hand. She started to do that laughing crying thing, he finally let her up, and you could see she was upset and holding back tears. He started mocking her as being a cry baby, her grandmother then said "oh, she's just so oversensitive" and comments were made on how she was an only child, unused to ordinary rough and tumble. The little girl had a book with her, she kept trying to retreat into a corner to read, but was repeatedly hauled out by her uncle, and then was scolded by her mother and grandmother for being rude, and not engaging with people.

At one point I went to the bathroom, and the poor little thing was hiding in a sort of alcove off the hall, with her book. I told her I wouldn't tell Grin she came back down eventually, and there was more goading and teasing, reducing her to tears, whereupon she was told again that she was spoilt and touchy.

There were two other children at the event, one older and one younger, belonging to Friend A's other older brother, and they didn't get any of this.

This is absolutely nuts, isn't it? A grown man wrestling a young girl down to the floor and sitting on her while other adults look on, saying nothing? I was completely shocked and discussed it on the way home with Friend B, who thinks that it's a bit weird but normal in the context of some large rowdy families. I'm an only child and I have two children myself, and we are all quiet and introverted, so maybe she has a point, but AIBU to think this child is being bullied by her uncle while her family watch? If a grown man tripped my daughter up, wrestled her to the floor, then sat on her, he'd be exiting the building on stumps.

OP posts:
7yo7yo · 13/01/2019 18:16

Say to her I’m concerned about the way your brother behaved towards your daughter. In my opinion it was bordering on abuse and bullying. You need to put a stop to it.

honeyrider · 13/01/2019 18:17

Bullies and predators are very good at selecting their victims.

Writingtrash · 13/01/2019 18:17

Alone fuck me you're right, I'll just saddle up my charger and ride in and lift her, will I?

Any constructive advice?

OP posts:
ohtheholidays · 13/01/2019 18:19

We are what some would call a large family,me,DH and 5DC and what you've described is in no way normal!

I have 2 much older brothers,one is 15 years older than me and the other is 13 years older and they never behaved in that way with me or my DC,if any of us saw that behaviour we would have thought that all of the adults were nuts and we'd be having a go at them and standing up for the little girl.

Honestly your friend sounds like she is to weak in this situation and I'd be reporting it to childline or SS and I don't give a fuck if anyone thinks that's over the top,if he's showing this behaviour infront of everyone and no one is sticking up for this little girl imagine what he could do in private and you can bet from that reaction if he or someone else did something to that little girl in private she would be very unlikely to tell any of those adults you'd mentioned!

Please stick up for her OP because it really doesn't sound like anyone else ever will and you don't have to give your name or number when you make a report so no one would know it was you!

Petalflowers · 13/01/2019 18:19

Some kids can take rough and tumble, others can’t.

This uncle,obviously took it too far.

itstheweekend · 13/01/2019 18:24

I'm from a family that is large, loud and boisterous, and that type of behaviour would never ever be allowed or condoned.

You have described an adult male being allowed to physically assault a child. And the child being told they have to accept the abuse, It is sick, wrong wrong and illegal. No words to the friend, report it. That child needs help.

ShadyLady53 · 13/01/2019 18:25

My brother had no sexual motive and other similar men I've known didn't...they were just nasty bullies.

HOWEVER, this family have created an environment where, if the child was sexually abused by this man (or anyone to be honest), she wouldn't feel safe to report it - no one has taken her side, ever. She's been ridiculed and humiliated about being an only child whilst in pain. And she's been conditioned by the whole family to not defend herself or protest. It makes me feel sick just thinking about what she's going through.

I'd report it to NSPCC and school.

The way to approach it with friend is; "I saw you looking uncomfortable at the party when your brother was hurting dd. I really wanted to say something as she was clearly distressed and in pain but I didn't feel able. I'm worried about her. Does this sort of thing always happen with brother. It was so shocking. He was physically abusing her in plain sight and your family were defending him and ridiculing her."

They've probably conditioned her to think its normal too. She needs to know it isn't.

honeyrider · 13/01/2019 18:26

You've been given constructive advice but you're looking for any excuse to not treat it as seriously as it needs to be treated and using anxiety as a cop out not to have said stop when you had the chance.

Surely if you have anxiety you could at the very least imagine how bad that young girl must be feeling. I'm sickened by this thread.

ShadyLady53 · 13/01/2019 18:29

And be prepared that you may lose the friendship. It's worth it if it ultimately saves a child's life. I was suicidal due to my family environment. When your family is the thing that's hurting you and you can't get away, what other way out is there?

Report.

Writingtrash · 13/01/2019 18:33

shadylady thank you, I'll use that word for word

honeyrider I'm so happy to hear you never make misjudgements in your life and devoutly hope you approach every mother you see smacking her toddler in the shopping centre so you can show her the error of her ways.

OP posts:
bearsinthestudy · 13/01/2019 18:33

That's really upset me. She is not spoilt that is not rough and tumble play. ROugh and tumble play is between two children who consent to it and are better matched in size and strength. I tell my children, it is only play if you both enjoy it. Otherwise it is bullying.

And no-one should be touched in anyway they don't like. Bloody hell, even my five year old knows that he is the 'boss of his body' and no-one is allowed to do anything to it he doesn't like - not even me!
Not even if it is a hug he doesn't want. talk about failing to teach a girl that she is entitled to boundaries around her own body. Or not entitled to her emotions when she is upset.

She may have a quieter sensitive personality. I do. It's not a fault, it's just a personality type. What is at fault here is her family's complete unwillingness to even try to understand that little girl, and adapt their behaviour to her individual self.

What's wrong with some people!

cuppycakey · 13/01/2019 18:34

I agree with PP, as you don't feel strong enough to take it on yourself, please at least report it to the girls school. Poor thing needs someone to be on her side Sad

Rinoachicken · 13/01/2019 18:34

Would you let someone do it to your own daughter OP, because you have social anxiety and so can’t possibly speak up to prevent abuse even when it’s right in front of you?

Writingtrash · 13/01/2019 18:34

Should I report it beyond speaking to my friend? A PP said the school, but if I made a report to NSPCC they contact the school anyway, don't they?

OP posts:
Rinoachicken · 13/01/2019 18:36

I would wait and see what the friend says before further reporting. If she’s dismissive then I would definitely report it further to the school and/or NSPCC

Shamoo · 13/01/2019 18:36

Personally, I would approach friend A and tell her that you/somebody you know very well grew up in a similar situation with a brother/uncle/cousin who did similar and explain that it left her traumatised etc. - that you are concerned that maybe it is so usual in their family dynamic that nobody sees it as problematic, but that it was clear as an outsider that the little girl was very traumatised and that based on your/your friend's experience you feel you need to mention it to her. I appreciate this may not be true, but it will help to make the message easier to land.

In my experience, I don't think it is necessarily sexual (I know others who had brothers who did similar to them) but just about power/aggression/ control/bullying. I would leave anything sexual out of what you say to A, as that's a whole different level of accusation.

You can then decide if you need to take it any further based on A's reaction.

Rinoachicken · 13/01/2019 18:36

I think a safeguarding alert coming from school holds more weight than a random call to NSPCC TBH

MrsJane · 13/01/2019 18:37

Call your friend now. Tell her as gently as you can how worried you are. Tell her you asked mn for advice as you were so conflicted, and then send her the link to this thread.

Tread carefully in what you say, as there could be a reason she allows this behaviour to happen and she may feel too scared to speak up. So charging in all guns blazing might not help.

Hopefully she'll open up and admit she's not happy about. If she denies any problem, then you'll have phone the NSPCC for advice.

Please stand up for this little girl.

Writingtrash · 13/01/2019 18:39

No I bloody wouldn't let someone do it to my daughter, even "OK" rough and tumble play wouldn't happen, our families just don't operate that way. But my own childhood was a bit weird and I wasn't around other children or families much, and my friends often say I'm a bit uptight and odd

OP posts:
itstheweekend · 13/01/2019 18:39

Contact www.nspcc.org.uk/services-and-resources/nspcc-helpline/

It's the best thing to do, It sounds like your friend is conditioned to believe this behaviour is ok, report and maybe help to break a cycle.

MitziK · 13/01/2019 18:40

Should I report it beyond speaking to my friend?

Absolutely. She's been groomed into allowing this to happen without kneecapping the prick. And the rest of the family might shut the fuck up about how she's being a wimp/only child if they see SS take 'He held my arms down above my head and made my wrists hurt, but laughed and sat on me and kept tickling me' pretty fucking seriously.

SandunesAndRainclouds · 13/01/2019 18:40

HOWEVER, this family have created an environment where, if the child was sexually abused by this man (or anyone to be honest), she wouldn't feel safe to report it - no one has taken her side, ever. She's been ridiculed and humiliated about being an only child whilst in pain. And she's been conditioned by the whole family to not defend herself or protest

^This. These are the dangerous messages which I’m referring to. When the worst happens, there’s no one to turn to. If the damage isn’t already done it will happen.

Constructive advice - ring the NSPCC and tell them what you saw, and that it’s not right. They’ll help.

ShadowHuntress · 13/01/2019 18:42

My brother play fights with my 7 year old dd. In our family it’s very normal. Difference is, my dd loves it and gives as good as she gets. He would never let it get to the stage where she was actually getting hurt or annoyed. It’s just playful fun which my dd usually starts by jumping on my brother whenever she sees him.

What you described didn’t sound like two-sided fun. It was bullying a young girl when she’s made it clear she’s had enough.

bearsinthestudy · 13/01/2019 18:43

Maybe you could show your friend this thread. The accounts from women who suffered this type of behaviour are really affecting.

CatnissEverdene · 13/01/2019 18:51

I saw this many years ago OP and even as a child felt very upset how a school friend was treated by a family friend. Her family all thought it was funny Sad and no one heard her saying she didn't like him............ turned out he was sexually abusing her as well.

I think you have a duty to report this, first point of call I'd ring the NSPCC and perhaps talk to the safeguarding officer at her school.

Someone needs to be her voice if her family are acting like that. Poor little thing, how utterly appalling for her.