AIBU to think that mainstream veganism will ultimately end up like this?

[EerieSilence]

I know it's Daily Fail but hey, they did the investigation and the research on contents so why not?
So, here goes the vegan sausage for everybody. Fermented fungus, shitloads of salt and palm oil.
It's my personal belief that in countries with cold seasons and limited availability of fresh vegetables and fruits we should be trying to eat more local than vegan because if you want to do it cheap, this is how you end up. Organic vegan diet is a first world luxury for now.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6583469/The-unpalatable-truth-right-vegan-sausage-roll.html

I think veganism will die out. These movements are the result of not having enough to worry about and you aren't noticed these days unless you are indignant about something.

Veganism will not "die out". Its becoming more of an acceptable mainstream way of eating. If people chose to eat meat, then others can chose not to. Whats wrong with that? All the hysteria about vegans abusing meat eaters etc is Daily Mail rubbish. Its like saying all muslims are terrorists. Most want to get on with their lives. Food manufacturers are trying to jump on the bandwagon and sell more processed shit. All the vegans I know try to eat healthily, use locally produced fresh organic food as much as possible.

Gosh, it seems to be bash vegans week on MN. I'll pin my colours to the mast by saying I'm not vegan, and will never manage to be vegan.

Try buying cup-a-soup, or any instant soup. Every single one of them has palm oil. Almost every processed food has now. It's not vegans' fault manufacturers are using it, we all have to take responsibility. Same goes for nuts. It never occurred to me there was anything ethically wrong with eating nuts, so why blame vegans?

sustainable fungal farms are actually part of Nasa's long-term plan to produce food on Mars. (I know it's controversial as many people believe we will never have a Martian colony, but I'm simply making the point that our world's leading scientists think fungus is the best way to sustainably nourish people in the most hostile environment we have ever imagined humans existing)
Depressing. We’ve fucked up one planet, so let’s move on to the next.

All the hysteria about vegans abusing meat eaters etc is Daily Mail rubbish
Lots of people seem to want to believe it though. We’re not even vegan, just vegetarian, but people seem to think even that is in some way a judgement on them and want to take offence. I’ve got a lot of friends that are in farming (and not even livestock!), and a few have, on more than one occasion, wanted to know ‘why’? I don’t usually shy away from confrontation but it’s not really a subject I want or need to justify to anyone so I have taken to saying, oh I loooove meat but it makes me really ill, d and v (not a complete lie, I think my digestive system can’t cope with it on the very rare occasion I have reverted) to which they usually say ‘oh, ok then’ and drop the subject. When I have been honest they really wanted to have a cast iron defence from me. I don’t care what they do, so I don’t really know why they care what I do. You do you, I’ll do me.

When I have been honest they really wanted to have a cast iron defence

I think it's human nature to reject hypocrisy and veganism lends itself to hypocrisy. Vegans often say 'It's not perfect but I'm doing the best I can' but that's not good enough if your entire doctrine is based on a moral stance that is preached to others. Which takes me on to my second point; Veganism brings with it a tendency to share your morality with others. A morality which is seen as superior. And most people do not want to consistency hear a flawed hypocritical judgement of their moral choices.

We don't buy palm oil products at all but I understand we are much further down the vegan road than some in that it's been years for us and we don't buy ready meals, processed stuff or junk. Makes it easy to avoid the palm.

And no, we haven't had one of the infamous sausage rolls! But I do wish Piers has choked on his.

@windowWAG I'm sure plenty of people preach about all sorts of beliefs but it is sad to keep hanging all us vegans from that one noose. We don't shout about our ethics, because they are ours and private. People who worked with DH for years had no idea he is vegan.

Why isn't it good enough to say 'I'm not perfect but I'm doing the best I can'? It's really hard to suddenly become a 'perfect' vegan overnight, animal products are so ubiquitous in so many of our day to day groceries, it takes a huge shift in how you shop, plan, cook and eat. But if you believe it's important to do so, you will start where you are. Waiting til you are a 'perfect' vegan before you share what you're doing with others seems a bit daft, if you're convinced it's the way forward why wouldn't you share that as soon as you can?

And why does it matter if those who are buying plant based foods part timers or 'proper' vegans? Surely you should be glad that people are trying to eat less meat, try new things and see that lo and behold they can enjoy not eating animal products? Why be sniffy about people's motivations? If you want them to get more heavily involved in animal rights issues then be glad that the so called 'part timers' have made a start rather than slagging them off for jumping on a bandwagon?

No many don't. But many many do. Even small remarks or judgments all add up and chip away. Veganism is more tangible than many topics that tend to be preached about. It's 3 meals a day and every one is often an opportunity to be reminded how terrible you are.

I think it's human nature to reject hypocrisy and veganism lends itself to hypocrisy.

As does meat eating but calling yourself an animal lover.

Isn't the answer, which we all knew anyway, is that nobody is perfect?

All vegans know they can never be perfect and eliminate all animal exploitation but we are doing as much as is reasonable and practical. What are you doing to reduce animal suffering or does it just not bother you?

The all or nothing approach as an argument against veganism is poor. Its like saying well I won't bother saving that animal from cruelty because another one is suffering.

Would you have the same argument about charitable giving? Should I not donate any money because I dont donate all my disposable income?

It has no merit as an anti-vegan stance.

Waiting til you are a 'perfect' vegan before you share what you're doing with others

Why are you 'sharing' it at all?

@rabbitfoodadvocate - I keep repeating it again. The vegan vision is that society will move more to vegan diet.
I agree, to a certain point. But not because it will be ethical but because it will be so much cheaper to produce stuff without investing into breeding of animals. The result won't be necessarily ethical though.
People want to eat. They want to eat cheap. As I have already mentioned, a family that's already counting every penny will not be looking at the ethical ingredients. They will be looking at the price. They won't care whether there's a list of chemical additives longer than bull's penis on the packaging, whether people somewhere in India or Peru etc. suffer so we can have our animal-friendly vegan burgers or if half of the planet is deforested. They won't be able to afford the people-friendly products. But vegans don't really seem to care about people anyway from what I could see.

What are you doing to reduce animal suffering or does it just not bother you?

It's okay to say it doesn't bother you. It's not your job to convince me it should bother me by sharing your values.

As does meat eating but calling yourself an animal lover.

The difference is I don't preach a dogma that you cannot love animals when someone eats meat. It doesn't even occur to me.

@Juells, you might want to check this article to know more about nuts of the vegan friendly kind.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/nov/02/cashew-nut-workers-pay-conditions-profits
This is the real cost of our fashion fads.

I agree that the best thing you could do is buy locally produced stuff, eat in season and avoid heavily packagesd, processed stuff. Reduce meat and dairy products etc. I don’t see how there’s anything wrong with eating eggs if you bought them from a local farm or had your own hens, for example, or local honey from a beekeeper.

However that is all easier said than done. I shop in Aldi, I don’t live near any farms.

You do realise that the “local farm manure” is poisoning the waterways of the uk? See here

Or that you can get sustainable palm oil, if you can’t avoid it. Most vegans I know try to avoid it. Unfortunately companies in countries such as China and India are less bothered than British about where their palm oil comes from.

Most vegans eat a lot of pulses and a lot of tofu (from European soya) and a lot of veg. Why would we want to live on “fake” food when there is so much tasty naturally vegan food?

I get it OP. Our vegan household is such as an ethical choice and it is a full lifestyle for us, not just food. Palm oil is so destructive and we are fortunate enough to had enough info at our fingertips, time and budget to make choices that align with our overall ethos.

That being said, we literally make all of our food from scratch, with no meat substitutes etc. For two of us and a beloved pooch, our weekly shop is £40 and we go without nothing, but again, this is a privilege as I have the time and desire to cook! I'm also pregnant, so I'm really looking forward to seeing if I can maintain the same cooking enthusiasm!

I think for a lot of people, vegan food must mean healthier, meaning weight loss etc. Ethics are a lesser motivation now that it's all very easy to buy mainstream stuff!

@dangermouseisace Amen!!

I had a bash at making our own tofu. Granted, it wasn't the greatest thing ever, but there's room for improvement and was fine after a good press!

@eeriesilence are you implying only vegans eat cashew nuts? About 5% of the people in the UK buy ALL the cashew nuts? That the meat eaters don’t enjoy a chicken with cashew nuts from the Chinese takeaway, or the low carb meat fiends on here don’t snack on nuts? Hint: vegans are not responsible for the negative aspects of non meat/dairy/fish products. Unless omnivores only eat meat, fish and dairyto the exclusion of absolutely everything else!

Vegan diets in the UK rely massively on imported food

Large parts of the world are not suitable for growing arable crops
but are great for rearing livestock

Integrated sustainable agriculture with minimal waste and minimal food miles is a much more sustainable approach.

@windowWAG Just as I don't go on any forums or social media platforms and blast meat eaters. You're not as guilt-free as you are making out to be, as you seem to have real umbrage with people who have a different lifestyle and are comfortable enough to discuss it.

Can't we all just get on with our own business?

Meat eaters love to hang on that word 'preach'

How often do you see meat and dairy advertised? What is advertising but a form of preaching? You even see meat eaters preaching about vegans being preachy. What had Piers Morgan done all week but this.

Using the claim of 'preachy vegans' is a defence mechanism for having cognitive dissonance challenged.

Nobody needs preach to anyone else. You'll either come to that conclusion or you won't. But that is well away from what the OP was.

@rabbitfoodadvocate well done! I’ve heard fresh is best. I’ve got as far as making the soya milk from scratch....then I gave up!