To think it’s easier to want open boarders if you’re privileged?

[Theselfishsister]

Having an ongoing conflict with my sister regarding refugees, she’s very ‘let everyone in’ I would say I’m somewhere in the middle.

She’s given up spare bedrooms to refugees, spends weekends in Calais helping them and is posting everywhere on SM about letting them all in. As well as attending protests regularly for the last 4 years or so.

What strikes me is that her and her other friends going to all of the events are white, MC (although she is by marriage, we grew up very WC) and live incredibly comfortably. She’s a SAHM and her husband owns his own company, they have never needed benefits or social housing and her children are privately educated with all of them receiving private medical care.

A massive increase in people here are unlikely to ever have much affect on her life, she won’t have to fight for jobs or wait for a house or deal with benefit cuts when too much is paid out, as well as the increase in waits for Medical care and school admissions. Whereas for someone like me, this is obviously a more worrying factor and the thought of just opening our borders to everyone does scare me. As much as I would love to be able to take every person fleeing a great life, it just causes me worry and I don’t think I could support completely open boarders.

She obviously just thinks I’m a selfish heartless bitch for not protesting to remove our borders or similar. When I asked why she let refugees sleep in her spare rooms but never the homeless man on the road behind her (who’s been in the same spot since she moved there 5 years ago!) she called me a racist!

So AIBU to think it’s easier to want open boarders if you’re privileged or am I just a selfish cow?

@Moussemoose exactly.

OftenHangry

Why not.

Ds has had little more than 2 years of primary education. Reception and Year 1

By the time he got into year 2 (summer born so was nearly a year behind some of his peers anyway) he was expected to read and write. He couldn't so that is where his formal education stopped.
He continued into year 3 but he was like someone who wanted to learn mandarin being put into the degree class. Everything went over his head.
I home schooled him for the next 2 years and he returned to school in year 6.
Just about able to read individual words.

It was an excellent school but then he left for senior school and it was beyond him.

Took him out and home schooled him. He passed his Maths GCSE with flying colours.

All the way along this route I had tried and tried to get him tested for dyslexia.
Only now he is at college has he been tested for everything.
ADHD (suspected but will need another test) Dyslexia, Dysgraphia, and dyzpraxia.

However because of a pt job he had done he was put into the 2 nd year of the mainly practical course which he has an average score of 97.5% for all his tests and assessments.

So I don't see why you can't rock up and expect a college place.

It doesn't mean you are not able to do the course.

Ds is very very bright, studies things that interest him in detail (probably the ADHD hyper focus) He once was able to recite a Shakespeare piece (21 lines) after only hearing it read out a couple of times.

Years ago if you weren't academic these type of courses were exactly what boys and girls were encouraged to take.

As I have said before I know loads of people who don't have either English or Maths GCSE who went to University and are successful Solicitors and Accountants and Scientists.

Just because you can't pass one or both doesn't mean you can't talk or write or add up. It just means you can't pass an exam or 2.

Most countries will have required you to get passed some barrier to entry in order to access apprenticeships, they are not just open to all

Ok Boris I will ask, which countries.

Which countries require you to pass unrelated exams to be a plasterer, brick layer, plumber, hairdresser.

And what happens to the ones that don't pass.

Oliversmumsarmy I am not sure where the problem is because these people (incl myself) are still educated to and often above GCSE level which you still have to show if you want to get further qualifications in UK. Usually by showing your grade reports from the same year GCSE would be taken

When you say educated to GCSE level what exactly do you mean.

Because ds was educated to GCSE level, he didn't pass more than 1.

Do you not have people with dyslexia or learning difficulties in your country?

What happens to the ones that aren't able to pass?

Lots of countries have leavers certificates for education which indicates you achieved a certain standard in a range of subjects.

Doesn't mean they haven't achieved a level or that there are no barriers to entry.

Yes lots of countries do have a leavers certificate or exams at 16 for example but which countries insist that pupils reach a certain level before they can learn a trade.

In the US you have to get a certain score in your overall exams. But to learn a trade you don't need to have attained that score to go on to learn a trade as an example.

In Europe friends ds was encouraged to learn a trade as he wasn't going to do well with academics.

He failed all the academic exams but now is going to qualify in the trade ds wants to qualify in but won't because he will fail English.

Years ago dp failed English, but still went on to get a Law degree.
Whilst studying for another qualification at the same time.

"The eligible starting age can be no less than 16 years of age; however, individuals must usually be 18 to be an apprentice in hazardous occupations. Program sponsors may also identify additional minimum qualifications and credentials to apply, e.g., education, ability to physically perform the essential functions of the occupation, proof of age. All applicants are required to meet the minimum qualifications. Based on the selection method utilized by the sponsor, additional qualification standards, such as fair aptitude tests and interviews, school grades, and previous work experience may be identified."

www.doleta.gov/oa/apprentices.cfm

So in the US there are entry requirements.

A GCSE is not an academic qualification, its a base level.

In foundation level maths ( EDEXCEl) last year you needed 56% for a 4 entry requirement for most L3 Apprentiships.

In the higher paper you needed 20%.

In the foundation English you needed 46%.

These are not "academic" qualifications, they are base standards.

However there should be equivalents that students can take.

To be a plumber in the US you need a GED, which means achieving a minimim level in maths and English.

"You must be a minimum age of 18
You must have either a High School Diploma or GED
You will have to pass a basic math test
You will have to have a clean drug test
You will need some working knowledge of computers
Receive training at either a trade school or community college program.
Complete an apprenticeship program which takes 4-5 years to complete and will not only give you on the job experience but will expose you to more plumbing coursework.
Get that plumbing license in whichever capacity your state requires."

careerschoolnow.org/careers/plumber

I truly believe that there should be no borders anywhere.

Does this poster really believe that this would be workable? That anyone in the whole world could live wherever they wanted? That this country should accommodate millions - nay, billions - more people should they choose to come here?

Well, benefits would be scrapped for a start. Everyone's benefits. There would be shanty/tent towns. Public services would collapse. People would barricade themselves inside their homes to avoid desperate robbers - no open gardens. Wealthier people would leave for pastures new. Others would pay private security companies to protect their neighbourhoods. Shambles.

Obviously we have people with learning dosabilities, however they are still educated to the similar level as others. Might have worse grades, but everyone has to get to certain level. Tbh I know only 1 person irl who has not got any further education (beyond GSCE level).
Plus in many countries maths etc don't finish there, but carry on through the college to even if you study for example that waitressing I mentioned. Hence even higher level than GCSE.

Unless you pass you simply cannot go onto further education. There is an option of repeating the year if you fail, I am not sure whether Uk has it as well.

i think not having the GCSE exam in my country of birth actually does motivate people to study further because with just that level, you are utterly doomed in a job market.

But before you get the apprenticeship you have to do a couple of years in a classroom which each year you will have to pass the all the exams and assessments before you get let loose on an apprenticeship.

So the person who has passed will have all the relevant knowledge to then go into the apprenticeship.

It also doesn't say you have to have certain things. Yes they look at school exams but they also take account of the interview, the aptitude for the course which they have been doing, and other stuff.

No where does it say you have to have a certain academic exam otherwise you can't go on to do the apprenticeship.

Here you can't get on to the first level without having English and Maths GCSE and at least one other GCSE in most colleges.

The one ds attends has an influx each year of pupils who were set to go to another college but failed to get the relevant GCSEs

I have already spoken to a college in the US and they get a few pupils from the UK in ds's position each year.
All he has to show is his exam results from the college he attends (top of the class and an average score of 97.5%) and be able to pass the visa test to show he speaks English.

To get him qualified the cost is relatively quite small and will have earned it all back probably in his first year of trading.

The alternative is pretty bleak

But it still doesn't prove the the UK isn racist towards UK born students.

Which is what you said.

All countries have entry requirements.

All countries have entry requirements

No they don't.

Friends son hasn't a single qualification alongside probably most of his peers.
The course is for those that don't have academic qualifications

If you are able to accept one set of people from a particular country who only have one qualification but won't allow another set from another country to even qualify because they don't have extra qualifications that in my eyes is racism.

I think getting on a course is very much up to the colleges.

DD who doesn't have English GCSE and just a few GCSEs which she scraped through took a pt practical course at a university.

Talking to the teaching staff afterwards who were impressed with her, they told her she should apply to the university.

DD pointed out she didn't have an English GCSE let alone A levels

Apparently that wasn't a problem.

They thought she would do well on the interview and the university were always looking for talented people and they would recommend her.

Sometimes what schools and colleges say they want to get on the course can be
thrown out if the window for the right person.

OftenHangry It wouldn't matter how motivated ds or anyone who has SENs with all the will in the world ds and any one who has dyslexia and dysgraphia are going to struggle to pass a particular exam.

Given you only know 1 person who couldn't pass the exams
I can only assume the ones who weren't going to make it were whisked away from public gaze at a very young age

You can be the jobs in the UK - set yourself up in hairdressing, learn a trade from your father at age 14, work for yourself in the UK. It is just that shops want people at the tills who can add up or speak English that means most courses require the very basic leevels of English and maths and whilst some have said some lawyers don't have English an awful lot do. It is a huge part of the job. it is probably your most useful GCSE if you are a lawyer.

You are still not getting it.
There is no exam in many other countries. However, there are entry requirements.
For example finished 9 years of primary and secondary education. Many colleges have grade requirements as I mentioned, others have entry exams.

The fact that GCSE don't exist in many other countries doesn't mean people are not educated to or above that level.

The person didn't pass exams because there are none. He just flunked the college. I mentioned it as an example that education is different there and so is jobmarket outlook on education. It is done the way that everyone can get to higher than secondary shool level. Hence why you repeat the year if you fail. So it may take longer, but it gives everyone a chance.

Xenia

I don’t know where you are from but most people on the tills and in shops around here don’t speak English.

And yes you can learn a trade but in the UK you can’t qualify in it.

"I don’t know where you are from but most people on the tills and in shops around here don’t speak English"

Ah, I see who you are now.

No point arguing with stupid.

Most people on our tills locally speak English. My most used Tesco Express for example has a lot of English born Indian or Sri Lankan origin staff and some English origin ones. They have a new girl who seems to be Spanish (I didn't ask) - I was her first customer when learning to use the till and her English was pretty good and she is the only non English born one as far as I can work out on the tills. We have a lot of Indian origin corner shop keepers and they were mostly born here and have very good English.

The only time I had a language problem was when we had someone come here to clean from an agency when our then cleaner was away that summer and one of the 3 had very bad English and we had to use a phone app to translate.

Most people hiring traders do not know if Mr Smith who has been sent out by the com,pany has passed his qualifications in plumbing or working at heights or whatever although I certainly accept that it helps in most careers if you have some qualifications to prove you are not just a bored housewife who decided yesterday to be a therapist or instead you have a degree in psychology and are chartered etc. or some nutty quack with herbal remedies or a qualified surgeon etc I am certainly not against qualifications but you can make your way without them if you have to. I have worked with all kinds of very successful people who made it through without them (although I do not recommend anyone tries that if they can help it as there will be lots of those who find it is a big barrier)

I truly believe that there should be no borders anywhere.

So you wouldn't object to millions of poor Europeans flooding into Africa and setting up home?

Ha. Kiss goodbye to democracy, taxation, the welfare state, social housing, the NHS, free education.

Civilisation basically.

How are you intending the world is run in this utopia?

Bully for everyone who has English speaking assistants in shops.

Some areas don’t.

Just because you only know your area and they speak English doesn’t mean other places are the same

Another of those comments of because I haven’t experienced/seen/heard something. It doesn’t exist.

I lived in various places in UK and never have I ever experienced the I don’t know where you are from but most people on the tills and in shops around here don’t speak English.

Never. Number of cities large and smaller, various regions.

No English speaking cashiers, UK discriminating against UK students. What will be the next "100% happened" claim? No English speaking Home office staff? Signs on a street in different language?

Signs on a street in different language?

That’s already happened in a number of places. Including Polish ones in London, Buckinghamshire, Cheshire and Shropshire and Sylhet in the East End.

Kiss goodbye to democracy, taxation, the welfare state, social housing, the NHS, free education

Exactly. You cannot have open borders and a welfare state. That’s why open borders was traditionally only pushed by libertarian types (and anarchists).

Labour needed strong borders to protect their working class constituents. Although they really haven’t been in touch with their roots for awhile ....