To not pay this bill?

[whydobirds]

I'll try to keep this intelligible...

Dc attends wraparound care at school (not run by the school). It is invoiced for via paper invoices.

Except...I never get invoices. On occasion they will give one to dc, but it is usually wrong and needs correcting. On occasion they will put them in the register- they don't always get given out. Sometimes dc gets an invoice but loses it, or (and i only found this out tonight) sometimes they tuck them in an unused pocket in dcs bag so dc doesn't know they are there. Dc has ASD.

Dc mentioned to me in Christmas holidays thst there had been an invoice for 40 quid that they hadn't passed over to me. So I paid 40 quid.

Fast forward to Monday and the childcare had been through all their payments and realised i owed another 36. So i got an invoice for the 36 plus a late payment fee. Of 25 quid.

Their argument is I should have kept track of the childcare I had used, so I should have paid even if I didnt see invoices

Mine is that that isn't how business works, you pay when you get a bill or it just messes everyones accounting up, and last half term I spent a fair bit of time out of it on valium due to a severe injury to my back, so wasn't able to keep track of much - dcs dad, xh, was taking them in, but childcare still falls to me to pay.

I have tried to speak to them and explain that I didn't know I owed it as hadn't had the invoice so feel the late fee is unfair. They don't care, and the manager was really rude and aggressive to me. They have told me I lied about not receiving the invoices and that I lie about being in the playground every day to drop dc off. They've said they can't be expected to remember to ensure I get invoices brought to the door (when they hand everyone else's out), yet I am supposed to remember exactly what I have used. They told me they didn't give me the last invoice because dc told them i was skint (i wasn't and hadnt asked dc to say this), and that they don't want to invoice every week because it is a small amount, but then I am told I am lying when I say I had no knowledge of the invoice and I am told that they invoice me religiously every week (despite another member of their staff telling me they don't). I tried to explain that trying to keep track of things while on tranquilizers is impossible - they said they didn't care. I am told that I cannot rely on my child to twll me what I owe, yet they relied on my child telling them I was broke, and they rely on my child to deliver invoices.

On one occasion I received an invoice (one of the few I have had) via the teacher 3 days after the due date - I had to pretty much beg them to remove the late fee then, now they ate saying that that was a gesture of goodwill and they didn't have to do that.

If I refuse to pay the fine, they won't accept dc at the door, even though all childcare payments are now up to date. Dcs dad and I both start work well before school.
Feel like they've got me over a barrel. AIBU in thinking it's really not fair of them to do this, and that even if they believe I owe them the money, talking to me like a delinquent kid isn't on...and if IANBU, wtaf can I do other than acquiesce to someone who is fundamentally being a bully?

When I used to pay asc it was treated like any other utility. I knew how many sessions were needed and paid. When it was cash system I would ensure that myself or someone would take in the money. When they went online I just did a quick transfer at the same time as other bills I paid this way.
I never understand how people can forget or not know. You know you send the child for X sessions at X cost so you pay X amount.
Same with dinner money. You know it costs X and they have X meals a week so your bill is X.

And yes I know what it's like to be busy and be on meds that screw with your memory. And when I have been very bad, I used to mark the calendar to help remember the session.

I don't believe for a moment they don't have an email address. I'm under a different regulator but they email stuff constantly - you could not operate without one. I doubt Ofsted is any different. That's before you get on to suppliers, taxman, payroll...they're outright lying.

I'd be looking for other care. Ofsted won't deal with contractual issues as such but the dreadful paperwork, poor communication, sending stuff via children, lack of contracts will all be of interest.

Shit like this gives childcare providers a bad name. Most of us work damn hard to provide a professional service. These guys are cowboys

@theworldistoosmall I thought I had paid everything...they invoiced incorrectly and it didn't occur to me to count to check as it looked ok based on what I knew I had paid. The whole bill was nearly 300 quid, I missed a small bit as I was asked for less than that amount.

Out of interest how do you remember to mark the calendar? Not being awkward, just interested.. my boss has strategies at work to ensure I remember the important stuff, and I tell people not to worry about seeming nagging because I need it...but I forget everything without support, even if its on google calendar on my phone. I've forgotten that a kid had a football fixture so went to the wrong place too early to get them. I've forgotten to go to medical appointments I needed...forget the farrier is coming, forget my work keys (I leave them in my car if I remember, so I can't forget them). I forget where I am going when I am driving. I go to the shop to nuy one specific thing and forget it...make a list and leave it at home. I make myself lunch to take to work and I leave it in the fridge despite the hufe note that says 'lunch' on my wallet. I find my house keys and tv remote in the fridge and I can't understand most nights why my house doesn't flash to let me in when I press the car key. I put dinner in the oven, forget what the timer is for and burn it. Or I put it in and forget to turn the oven on. I can't just leave the house because I can never remember if it is locked. I have almost no memory of any past at all, I basically live in the now and the last few months. it is unbelievably frustrating and makes me feel like crap tbh. Being assessed for adhd (son has it and he's the same) but I really do envy people who can just remember stuff. Cos I just can't. I'm completely reliant on people to remind me. I wish that wasn't the case. I joke about it a lot but in reality, it really depresses me and makes everything exhausting. The sheer effort to hold a thought in my head is often almost painful.

@statisticallychallenged thank you so much for your help and input.

I think it's very unreasonable if you have paid what has been invoiced. However if you want to continue using the service there is little choice. Sucks.

If child went asc - i would put that on my calendar, count them up and paid with a little P.
Appointments, kids stuff etc - full address on calendar and alerts. Reminders to pay what bills on what days with the amount if known, or to check.
Keys and other work crap I always kept in the same bag.

I use alarms and little notes to remind me what they are. So the asc I would have alarms to remind to mark, count and pay. At the moment they are being used for medicinal purposes for example.

I also have an app that I can make various lists, mark those tasks I have done and set alerts where needed.
Working I would have a going home list and everything I needed was listed, same with leaving the house.
When I was working I carried a note pad with me or my mobile. I would make a quick note about the task so I could remember it.
Then there's the camera function I occasionally use to take a quick snap of something if it's quicker.

Basically, instead of remembering to tell others and rely on them to remind me, I use my phone which is my back up in case I lose it. I did lose a few books over the years which was a nightmare.

In the pre-tech days, I painted a wall as a chalkboard to help the kids remember things like PE kits, homework etc. And as my health declined I started adding stuff. Great for the kids, but not so great when I was out.

You sound like you've got it tough with your memory, OP. Hope diagnosis is quick and easy to achieve.m and get the help you need

I'm wondering if some kind of Virtual Assistant or a nanny or housekeeper would help you. A VA could be tasked to contact you at a set time each day to find out sheet wrap around care you've used, record it, and pay it weekly for you, for example. Or chase the freaking useless company for their freaking useless invoices. They sound horrendous by the way. No way would I pay the late fee, if I hadn't been given a blasted invoice and they couldn't even tell me what time period my invoice was for.

You’re both BU. They should be more professional and ensure you always receive your invoice on time and not your DC or DC’s teacher .

However you can’t solely blame a lack of invoices for not paying the bill. You know how much childcare you use a week therefore should know the weekly/monthly cost and ensure it is paid.

You need to go back to then and explain thst you have been through the records and can see where THE error has been made. That they provided an incorrect invoice twice which meant you had unknowingly paid an incorrect amount which had not been rectified putting you in debit. As far as you are aware your account is now up to date as as it was an accounting issue you will not be paying the late payment fee on this occasion.

Specify that they must now send all invoices by email if they don't you will not be held accountable for late payments (write that bit down and give it to them)

If they are insistent you must pay the late payment fee and you don't feel you can fight it perhaps suggest as a gesture of goodwill from your part that you will pay £12 but not the full amount as it was not your error that caused the issue in the first place

I still think they do this on purpose to get money out of people.

I hope you get your diagnoses soon. I can't begin to understand but I have been on medication before that sent my mental health through the floor and that was tough.

Any chance you can set up a reminder on your work calendar each day to note down the child care and perhaps put that on a calendar at work or on your work email calendar?

I think OP is getting a hard time from some posters here. The saints and organisational god(ess)s who religiously keep track of what they owe and pay it regardless - good for you, but it's for your own peace of mind. The OP has no legal, moral or ethical obligation to pay anything without a proper (and correct) invoice. The supplier, be it a global corporation or a one-person business, does have a legal obligation to keep proper records and issue proper invoices if they wish to be paid. If they fail to to this it is their problem and their's alone.

They invoiced for £40 and then THEY later realised they had forgotten to invoice for another £36? So because they failed to invoice you correctly, they expect YOU to pay a late payment fee?? Erm, no!

It's like Tesco ringing and saying they forgot to charge you for some potatoes, so they want paying for them plus a fee!!!

They need to sort their systems out pronto. Invoices with no breakdown of how many sessions let alone dates is insane. How do you even know the invoice is correct?!?

Are you certain they have recorded your last payment as £40 and not £4?

"he supplier, be it a global corporation or a one-person business, does have a legal obligation to keep proper records and issue proper invoices if they wish to be paid."

Which law/ruling creates that obligation Sisyphus?