To ask if eggs can ever be vegan

[GloryforGloves]

Before I discuss, let me share the definition of veganism from the Vegan Society website:

Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

So, I understand fully that the egg industry is rubbish. Hens are confined, even if the box says free range; male chicks born as potential breeders are culled; old chickens are slaughtered. As a meat eater who buys into this, I get it’s shit. So I was wondering about alternatives.

Based on the definition above, I think it could be considered vegan to eat eggs from a rescue chicken who was keep in a happy, free range environment - a large back garden with a suitable setup. You are not breeding the animal for a specific purpose and I wouldn’t consider that exploitation as the chicken would lay regardless - in fact you are saving an animal that would have otherwise be slaughtered.
Instead you provide the chicken a comfortable, safe place to live and you enjoy it’s waste product.

I know some (most?) vegans say no animal product at all - but I think there has to be a reason for that stance - if it’s for ethics, then is this unethical?

What are your thoughts? Could rescued, well loved chicken eggs be considered vegan?

ApatheticPathetic rescue hens will be past their prime laying years but you'll still get several eggs per hen per week while the days are longer and they're getting the light. They decide for themselves when to brood but some never do - certain hens are broody and sit on anyone's eggs, others are not remotely interested in sitting.

If you don't have a cockerel and leave them their eggs they'll eventually rot, and if you do have a cockrel you'll be overrun with chicks. They don't eat their own eggs though will eat an accidentally broken one, not just their own. You'll want to take their eggs and replace them with ceramic ones to sit on if you want to discourage a broody from laying more and let her indulge her natural instincts. She'll get bored eventually when they don't hatch and abandon the ceramic eggs and lay again.

If you don't want eggs your plan isn't really workable.

You can't be vegan and eat eggs. But being vegan is not the only way to live in harmony with the world around you. I've been (ovo lacto) vegetarian for more than 25 years. I'm currently doing veganuary and hating it (please, please don't spam me with a load of tips on how to enjoy veganuary and tell me how much delicious vegan food is out there, it's not delicious food I miss, it's fucking cheese) so have been looking into 'ethical' dairy products for the future. You could argue all day about whether dairy can ever be ethical, but it does seem that there are ways to get dairy and eggs that are far less cruel and harmful than the way those industries are now.

icannotremember isn't it only eating cheese that's not allowed?!

Cheese based sex acts are probably also banned...

Some vegans are so puritanical!

Veganism is about what you put in your mouth, the reasons for that choice are secondary.

It’s also about other lifestyle issues, too. Buying cosmetics that aren’t tested on animals. Eschewing buying leather and wool and silk. Not paying to support animal exploration such as animal circuses.

I think as a PP pondered above, it’s both a diet and a philosophy. You can eat a vegan diet. But if you’re eating vegan and then buying pedigree animals, attending zoos, wearing makeup tested on animals, I wouldn’t say you’re actually vegan overall.

Still, it’s not about the pursuit of perfection, as there’s no possible way to live in a society that constantly abuses and exploits animals and sees them as lesser beings without harming animals in some way. I’m vegan in all the ways I mention above, yet I drive a car which no doubt harms insects I run over (and bigger issues with oil and petrol), I don’t personally go so far as to not buy items containing palm oil, I use lifesaving medication I know has been tested on animals as all medications are by law.

Nobody is 100% able to avoid harming nonhuman animals, but I feel the spirit of veganism is doing as much as you personally feel you can to reduce your impact.

I'm sure rule 34 applies here but I don't think I want to google it...

Ihaventgottimeforthis yep, completely. Myself included. You do have to be pretty strict in what you buy/do/consume/wear to feel you’re living within your moral code when the society you live in isn’t aligned with your ethics.

thecatneuterer
@speakout - but surely it depends why you're vegan? Otherwise, once again, we are just talking about dictionary definitions.

No, that's the point I am making.

It doesn't depend on why you are a vegan.

Veganism is about eating only plant based foods.

The reasons why are secondary.

If the reasons were the determinator then I could eat venison at every meal, if they were wild animals and died of natural causes and call myself a vegan.

It was a bit tongue in cheek Vietnamese, linked to the prior comments.

Seriously though, I do admire vegans who are applying what they believe in their daily life, I try to do the same but am a lot less successful usually.

I don't eat meat, and limit dairy.

I had an encounter with a vegan who attempted to shame me for eating eggs laid by chickens living the dream in my aunt's garden..

I referred to the Vegan Society statement re exploitation; bees are farmed and transported to be used for pollinating fruits and vegetables, so surely those are also not vegan, as bees are exploited to produce them..?

I think a minority of vegans sadly give others a bad name.

If you want to do your bit, and you believe it to be enough and are happy, then there should be no question. I do not agree with meat as a food product, but would not judge anyone for eating it.

I think eggs from happy, rescued chickens, in happy, safe environments, are more than acceptable!

I know a vegan who rescues battery hens and keeps them in luxury in her garden. She eats the eggs because it makes more sense than just throwing them away, since there will be eggs regardless of whether she eats them or not.

KitKat1985

Your friend is not a vegan.

KitKat1985

If your "vegan" friend ate several pounds of venison meat a day- deer that had died of old age and had lived a wild life- would she still be vegan?

Being vegan is ultimately bad for animals, a significantly number of species would become surplus to requirements and therefore endangered if they weren't bred for food or other commercial purposes.

Pigs, cows, sheep, hens, alpacas, and numerous others would have no value and no enviornment to support them.

While well intentioned, being vegan, if adopted by the majority, would result the virtual extinction of a large number of species.

Better to have a managed population than no population at all.

@Lushlemming What you mean is bad for species - not bad for individual animals. An animal that doesn't happen to be born doesn't suffer. I don't really care about animals not existing - I would love for far fewer of lots of things to be bred - I care about bad things happening to the ones that do exist.

Spot on thecatneuterer.

A similar argument is often used for zoos, the whole ‘if they didn’t exist animals would become extinct’. It’s a very selfish human perspective to think our desire to have a species still in existence no matter what is more important than the actual rights and welfare and existence of the individuals that make up that species.

Venison isn't normally deer that naturally dies of old age!

However, this reminded me of something I had read and really enjoyed. It's a farmer/meat producer who has actually thought a LOT about this stuff.

www.primalmeats.co.uk/morally-right-to-kill-animals-for-food/

If your "vegan" friend ate several pounds of venison meat a day- deer that had died of old age and had lived a wild life- would she still be vegan?

I think she would still be living by her vegan principles, if those principles were to cause animals no harm.

Ok so veganism is about not harming animals - cows naturally produces milk and needs to be got out of it so milk is harming a cow?

Housingcraze - yes it is. All the male calves are killed soon after birth as part of milk production, and the female is only kept as long as she is in full milk production, which is I think only a couple of years, and then they too are killed.

What is the driving force for veganism? Why does someone decide to become veganism?

Because it’s January. They’ll all go back to eating normally on 1st Feb.

What is the driving force for veganism? Why does someone decide to become veganism?

It's a very personal thing. I think for most it's a desire not to cause harm to animals, but for others it is about environmental concerns or even health. And for a few yes then it probably is about fashion and bandwagons.

My understanding is the majority of male calves are but not all are killed at birth. There some some that are kept for rose veal and some raised for longer. It is however a significant issue.

Well virtually no cows or bulls live out their natural life span in a nice environment. Whatever the specifics harm is being caused.