Summer born babies - am I wrong?

[Sunflowermuma]

Hi all, I'm probably BU particularly as my friends plans don't actually have any impact on me but

I have 2DD D1 is 3 and May Born. DD2 is 6m July Born

My friend has 3 kids. DS aged 7Sept, DD 3Aug and DS 5mAug

Our two daughters are both due to start school in September at different schools, my friend told me this week how she is in contact with the school to have her daughter start Sept 2020 instead as she's summer born. I asked why as her daughter is already in nursery 5 days, has no health issues and certainly isn't behind on development. Her reasoning? She just doesn't want a child to be youngest in the year.

Her son is very bright and doing really well at school and she puts that down to his sept birthday.

I queried her and said someone has to be the youngest and surely if she doesn't have any developmental issues the school will just say no. She replied saying that she'll make something up as she'll do what she can to get her DD ahead. Again this made no sense to me as surely having another year at nursery won't be good for her and she may get picked on once the other kids realise? She got a bit snappy with me and told me to mind my own so I now feel bad for questioning her, I was polite and tbh just trying to understand her thinking

Do people really do this? I understand delaying for developmental reasons but just to make your child the oldest instead of youngest?

I can see why the grammar school would have to say that tubs

@tubspreciousthings

Any idea when the new national guidance will come out?

My two are winter and spring born so I don't have first hand experience. But even dd1 wasn't really emotionally ready for school, though she did well academically. DD2 could have gone at three and been fine.

i do think needs to be on case by case basis, or where does it end? Someone will always have to be the youngest. You could end up with every summer born being held back!

Of all the summer born children I've known (without additional needs), I would say only one was truley not ready to start school and should have had the chance of being held back. There were others of course who seemed young in their year, but not so much that they really stuck out, as obviously there were other young summer born children there too.

A lot of it is parents wanting their child to excel, which is fine, but where does the line get drawn?

thegrassisgreenifyouwaterit DD still gets her funded preschool hours.

@ribblerobble - good luck 

@ReaganSomerset - no idea, it's supposed to go out for consultation soon, so depends on the consultation period, etc etc. I'm hoping it won't be too much longer...

What about premature babies who were supposed to be summer born but weren't?

That kind of doesn’t have anything to do with anything. A premature baby who was born in March but due in May can’t defer because they’re not summer born, but arguably there’s a small benefit from having been born earlier - they start school aged 4y6m instead of 4y4m (two months can make a lot of difference when it comes to toileting and dressing independently). That’s assuming no SN.

I'm a late August baby and really could have done with starting school a year later: I was fairly bright but very immature socially, looking back. I think my parents just desperately needed the free childcare, tbh.

If you child is born between April and August, you have the right to defer their school entry by a year, and that is an on-going referral, they will remain with that group right through school.

My local authority web site is still saying otherwise.

All children are expected to start school in the reception year in September, if they will be five in that school year. Deferring school entry means that a child begins school later than September, but still joins their own age-peer group.

www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgnl/education_and_learning/schools/school_admissions/primary_school_admissions.aspx

If there is some secret process that allows those in the know, or who can afford lawyers, to do something different, then that's very unfair.

I have two July-born DCs aged 16 and 14. The younger one would have benefitted hugely from staying back a year. However, this was not apparent at age 3 or 4 or even 5.

I was born on Aug 31st and really wish my parents had held me back a year. Like other people have said its more the social aspect rather than academic that affected me. There was a boy in my form who's birthday was the day after mine so he was practically a whole year older than me. I think it's not that big a problem at Primary and Juniors but once you get to secondary and into the teenage years it can be massive. When you are just turning 14 and all your peers are coming up to 15 for example its a massive difference. I ended up being social shunned and bullied quite a bit and have no contact now with anyone from my school year. Things got better for me massively when I failed my first year of A-levels and had to repeat year 12. I suddenly felt like I belonged and fit in. and made lots of lasting friendships.

I wish I had started my daughter a year later. She's the youngest in her year and academically she's fine but emotionally and socially I think she'd be so much happier in the year below. It's a bit late now though 😁

Firesuit Tower Hamlets website talks about deferring, which is starting later in the school year (eg a January start) rather than delaying, which is starting a full year later (at compulsory school age).

@Firesuit I think it's wording

You can apply to DELAY entry, meaning your child would start school (reception) a year later.

Or you can DEFER entry meaning you apply for a place as usual but choose to start them later on in the same school year (eg start after Christmas or Easter, or straight into y1 the following September - depending on when they reach compulsory school age (5))

It depends on the child as to whether it's a good idea. It probably makes more sense to have children grouped by ability /maturity than an arbitrary age cut off. If you have a summer born child who seems immature/not ready for school/suspect they may not be overly bright, it seems a good idea to keep them back. However if they are doing well for their age it may adversely affect them to be always top of the class and 'better' than the others - they will have a big shock when they get older and find the advantage they always had has disappeared!

I do think part of the problem is that many children are just far too young for formal learning when they start school at 4 or 5. If they started later as they do in most other countries the very young ones would have had time to grow up a bit before starting school at 6 or 7.

If "delay" and "defer" are two different things, they should have the opposite meanings to the ones quoted up-thread. I have "deferred" in the past, and it meant what is being called "delay" here.

Having no information on "delay" in the context of that admissions page is the same thing as saying it does not exist

So either it doesn't exist, or the LA school admissions page is misleading.

(Just read the linked to complete admissions brochure, there is one use of the word "delay", and that is talking about developmental delay as a justification for deferring.)

This is from the Tower Hamlets admissions brochure firestart

I deferred both my DS's.

We're in Scotland so slightly different months used. My boys would have both been 4y 9m when starting if I’d sent them when they 'should' have gone but as I deferred they were 5y 9m.

Every teacher had commented that it was noticeable as they were mature and ready for everything, and it was the right decision. So I’d always support any parent deferring their DC whatever the reason.

The high schools ignoring the deferral and putting them in the higher year group isn’t a thing here so it’s not been a worry.

My DS1 was home educated for 3 years and when he started school the deferral still held then as well.

Although they don't use the word delay, I've now found their instructions for "admission of children outside their normal age group."

"However, a parent may seek
admission for their child outside the
normal group, for example, if:
• they are gifted and talented
• they have missed a significant
amount of education due to
ill-health
• they were born prematurely
and would otherwise be in the
year below"

So, no, you can't go into a different year just because you are summer born.

I don't see why you're too concerned about it, it's her right to try and do this sort of thing for her child if she thinks they're a bit slow or unable to handle the pressures of school.

The issue is, there has to be a cut off! Or do you have half year groups?

There isnt really an obvious solution

There's national guidance to say that theoretically you can. But it is applied in different ways by different councils.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/389448/SummerrbornadmissionssadviceDecc_2014.pdf

(That was to @Firesuit )

DS is a July baby, and where I live, you can go to full time school in the September after your 3rd birthday. So he was just 3 years and 2 months when he started.
He is quite a bright lad so has never been behind academically, however his maturity levels leave somewhat to be desired. He's not a "naughty" kid as such, but is a bit of a joker, and I think this side will make him less successful than he should be when it comes to his education if that makes sense?
I'm not sure keeping him back would have done much good though, as at some point it would have to correct itself and he'd be put in his correct year.

i personally wouldnt go this far as i would worry i was "robbing" my child of a year of their adult life. HOWEVER i have a september born baby who is the eldest in her year. extremely bright and in the top 3 kids in the year group. There are July babies in his year who are way behind (friends with their parents and I constantly have to reassure them "theres 11 months between them, you cant expect them to be the same".

so your friend actually has a point as far as im concerned. but still not something i would purposely do.

*in HIS year