Summer born babies - am I wrong?

[Sunflowermuma]

Hi all, I'm probably BU particularly as my friends plans don't actually have any impact on me but

I have 2DD D1 is 3 and May Born. DD2 is 6m July Born

My friend has 3 kids. DS aged 7Sept, DD 3Aug and DS 5mAug

Our two daughters are both due to start school in September at different schools, my friend told me this week how she is in contact with the school to have her daughter start Sept 2020 instead as she's summer born. I asked why as her daughter is already in nursery 5 days, has no health issues and certainly isn't behind on development. Her reasoning? She just doesn't want a child to be youngest in the year.

Her son is very bright and doing really well at school and she puts that down to his sept birthday.

I queried her and said someone has to be the youngest and surely if she doesn't have any developmental issues the school will just say no. She replied saying that she'll make something up as she'll do what she can to get her DD ahead. Again this made no sense to me as surely having another year at nursery won't be good for her and she may get picked on once the other kids realise? She got a bit snappy with me and told me to mind my own so I now feel bad for questioning her, I was polite and tbh just trying to understand her thinking

Do people really do this? I understand delaying for developmental reasons but just to make your child the oldest instead of youngest?

Wow that’s a very untrue sweeping statement anniehm. I think most people have children because they want to raise them not palm them off on others to raise. We sure aren’t wealthy and delayed our son. He stayed at preschool for the extra year using his 15 hours free entitlement. Nothing to do with being wealthy it was to do with his readiness for school and our choosing to give him the best start possible at school.

If your school is oversubscribed then you don't really have a choice to start later unless you are ok with being allocated to a school miles away and probs the one with the least good reputation as well.

Snog not true at all your application is treated the same as everyone else applying that year.

I think it’s silly. Her daughter has no learning difficulties or any reason to hold her back. If I remember correctly my friend held her daughter back and she didn’t start reception she went straight into Year 1 the next year so there was actually no point.

My dd1 is 8 and an August baby. She is in Year 4 now and the youngest in her class but she is top of the class and exceeding in everything so I don’t think it makes any difference whether they’re the youngest or oldest.

@Mamaofthe4girlstribe

It makes a LOT of difference - have a look at The Summerborn Effect.

@snog

Not true - you apply the following year as normal so places are allocated in exactly the same way as @shantoto says.

@sunsine6 this 👏👍

My council only allows you to send them straight into Y1 with delays unless there is a medical factor. I have a child who was born 5 weeks premature in Aug 16 rather than his due date in Sept 16. He also has speech delay so we are working with SLT and nursery and HV with a view to delaying for a year. I think delays can be useful at request without evidence to save hassle and because I think parents are usually best placed to know if their child will struggle.

I think it’s different in different places. It’s not the norm where i live to hold younger children back. I think people might be overreacting personally but I realise there will be genuine needs too. The teachers and schools will be fully aware of the challenges on being a summer baby and will adapt accordingly in reception class. There might be differences in abilities, maturity etc at first but as they get older in primary school I think these gaps close enough not to be an issue. There were kids in my daughter’s class in primary school born sept (my daughter’s march) who did seem to do better on the whole than others but the summer kids were fine and one boy excelled born late July. There are always going to be people that do better or not as well as you in life and that’s fine and not all down to age, especially as kids reach high school. I don’t know how long this has been the ‘norm’ for as like I say it’s not something we do where I live and I know I’ll get a load of abuse for this but if children are genuinely not ready or have real issues I can see the point but I would have thought most schools would discourage it if there’s not special circumstances. I think it’s a big decision to make based mainly on the month your child was born to hold them back. As some have said directly themselves as some of these held back children, they do not appreciate being held back as they get older as it impacts on high school, uni start dates. Maybe this holding back business is a sign of the times when people are worried their child won’t be “the best” in class as they are disadvantaged so they’ll make them feel superior by being the eldest in the next year or a case of wrapping kids in cotton wool? Both my kids were ready for school by four because they went to pre-school too. I know plenty of adults born in the summer months who are high achievers and just went to school when they should. Not held back. It’s not destroyed their life going to school at aged four, quite the opposite. I know I’ll get a lot of stick for this post. That’s fine. It’s just my opinion and parents choose what they think is best but I think kids are far more adaptable and capable than given credit for. I think younger kids being with older kids grow up quickly in reception because they have people to copy but if they are the eldest they might not have that as much. It’s swings and roundabouts. I would not consider holding a child back unless there was a real need to do so, agreed with professionals, as it’s a short period of time but could impact the child longer term, in terms of as they’re older and realise they are in the school year below they should be. I would have been very pissed of if my parents had done that. Ok you can attack me now. I’m going anyway, said my bit.

How do people know where there children are in their classes academically? Genuinely interested. Yes I get you may be told that your child is 'greater depth' and your child might have a view and share it with you but to all the posters who say their summer born is one of the brightest/ top of the class how do they know?

*their

All the players who say 'I was summer born and it never held me back' - frankly this is totally irrelevant as the curriculum expectations have changed beyond all recognise since today's generation of parents was at primary school 15 or 20 or 30 years ago. The demands of Reception and Year 1 especially are hugely different so it is highly likely that very young children in the year group will struggle more now than they would have done previously.

How do people know where there children are in their classes academically?
Because in primary it’s really obvious when you go to open evenings and look at the work on display where your child sits in terms of academic ability. I could definitely tell you who the brightest kids in DDs class are (I couldn’t tell you who is struggling though because their work doesn’t get displayed). DDs work is very poor compared to the best work on display.

Sb74, you’ll not get lots of stick for your opinion. Your opinion is based on your own experiences, so it’s true to you. But you must surely be aware that the studies don’t have the same findings that your limited experiences have. It’s fab all your family and friends have done fine though, that’s super.

@augusta2012

Your council can't do that!! Since 2015 you can delay by a full year AND go into Reception. It's often a simpler process if you have a premie or medical issues but ANY child born April - August is a summerborn and has a right to staet whwn they are 5 in Reception not Yr 1. Jave a look on Facebook for a group called Flexible Admissions for Summerborns if it's something you want to find out more about. A child who was born prematurely and would have been born after Sept 1st had they not arrived early are very likely to be approved for a Reception start a year later as that is when they should have been starting school. PM me if you like

I haven’t read the whole thread so I apologise if someone with my view has said what I’m going to say.

My daughter is December ‘14 born so should be starting school in August. Unfortunately she has several problems including and ASD, speech problems and others.

She has not been a priority for full time nursery despite her issues and the backing of several services.

We are in Scotland so there is no Reception here. I’ve applied for a deferral as her stages of growth has shown her at mainly 2 years old. Despite all this evidence of her struggles she’s still not entitled to full time help and we are fighting tooth and nail for a deferral.

It’s a nightmare. If anyone has any advice it’d be greatly recieved.

@sb74

You're right that it's not for everyone which is why it's an option not the default setting.
I too know summerborns who were fine - I'm one of them! But the evidence shows that statistically Summerborns remain behind their peers right up to 18. Are 90 per cent more likely to be diagnised with SEN (presumably because they struggle to keep up rather than actually having SEN) and often struggle emotionally - more so later in life. My DP was a Summerborn who was not fine at school. We are giving our kids an extra year to be kids before they start school.

It doesn't impact start dates later on - a september born child starts Secondary at 11. A summerborn delayed by a year also starts at 11.

All the studies show the negative impactnof being born in Summer and starting school at just turned 4 - not one shows a negative impact of starting at 5 instead so for us it was a really easy decision.

It might make her feel better in the short term but by key stage 2 she'll have to be put in her correct year so ultimately she will be missing a year as you cannot start secondary school without being in your correct the birth year. Unless of course she can prove extreme developmental issues.
She sounds misinformed tbh. What benefit does she think her child will get spending another year at nursery with 3 year olds?

A child WILL NOT have to be put into their correct year! There’s a lot of people misinformed here but OPs friend seems to know exactly what’s what.

www.bbc.com/news/education-44155068. Another report to show there’s no evidence delay is helpful ....

...This article also states children ARE supposed to go into year 1 after delayed entry, not reception, so they ARE with children of the same age for the rest of school. Which makes perfect sense to me. Special permission needs to be given to hold them back from their year group.

It is pretty much impossible to get into my local school if you want to go one or two terms late or if you want to go directly into Y1 the following year because the class is always full and oversubscribed already.

So in theory you have choices but in practice often not.

I've never heard of anyone being held back a year and going into reception a whole year late.

All that report shows and actually mentions as well is that they don’t perform better on the phonics tests in yr 1, nothing about their overall development academically or socially. It also quite clearly states that autumnborns out perform summerborns and delayed summerborns kind of proving the point about summerborn statistics showing they under perform. It also quite clearly states that delaying a child and requesting a reception start at CSA is a simple request for out of year admissions request.

@snog if you read through the comments you’ll see my son & plenty of others have started reception at CSA the term after they are 5.

Our school is oversubscribed so it won't hold open a place for a term or two or a year until that child is ready to start school. Another child will take up that place and then the class will be full.

@onegiftedgal

I'm afraid you're wrong. Believe me i know the system backwards having successfully delayed my two. No child is forced back into another year. Key stage tests are done with their new year group.

@snog we aren't asking to go straight i to year 1 we're requesting our children start in year R a year later. Our request has been approved so have many others like @sunshine6 RTFT!!!

@Sb74 read it again - that's nit what it says. And read the response from the Dept for Education at the end of that article. Day does not help summerborns in phobics tesrs. That's it. The Dash data from The Summerborn effect looked at millions of childrens results over years of school and found significant disadvantages to heing summerborn.

It’s not holding a place for a year, the child applies with the same cohort starting reception that year.