DH and DD8 fighting

[Jennifer124]

so sorry its long but please read as I need outside perspective.

DD8 is day to day a lovely girl, sweet, caring, kind, but she is waiting to be assessed for autism. she has mild sensory issues and gets overwhelmed easily, when she's mad she can lash out if she's not left alone. Since we realised she may be autistic I have looked into ways to discipline her and talk to her when she's cross that don't antagonise her, we have realised that giving her space in her room, leaving her for a while and then going back and talking to her calmly really helps, rather than trying to reason with her when she's angry.

Anyway, she does much better with warnings, eg, 10 minutes till we leave, 5 minutes till we leave, right were leaving now, rather than saying ok time to go, straight away.

The other day DH asked her to come off the Nintendo switch and get dressed, she said I've just got to finish this, he said no now, she said no, resulted in an argument and she said if he doesn't let her finish it she will smash it. he shouted at her and sent her to her room. I'm not sure of what was said etc as I was in another room but there was a lot of arguing from them, he was in her room (this is where she would have benefitted for having time to cool off, but I think he's more of the opinion if she acts up she needs immediate consequences and telling off, but it just makes matters worse)

I could hear that she was screaming at him to leave her alone and get out and he wouldn't so she was pushing him and hitting him. there was a lot of shouting from both side and a lot of banging, but then he came out and asked me to ask her to get dressed as she wont listen to him.

anyway she was banned from the switch for a certain amount of time, she apologised the next day after id spoken to her, and I thought that was that.

but this morning I read her diary (I know, but its one of the only ways I can see how she's feeling)

this is what she wrote
"Dad said he hates me and that I'm a disgusting child. It made me sad when he said he hates me, I will never forget it. He pushed me into a wall and it really hurt and I landed on lots of things and it still hurts. I wish I was never born or dead"

I rang my husband to tell him, he said she was hitting me and she hit me in the balls what was I supposed to do. I said you should have walked away, he just kept saying yes I know, ill apologise, I know its not right, but tbh it feels like he was just telling me what I want to hear.

I said that saying sorry doesn't mean its not abusive, that abusive people often feel bad and say sorry, it doesn't mean its ok.
he said I know damn well he's not abusive, but what do you call pushing an 8 year old into a wall and telling her you hate her??

For the record he is a good dad, he works hard and he is usually really good with them, he doesn't hit them as a punishment although he can be a bit scary when he shouts but the kids can be hard work. but AIBU to think a grown man can get away from a child that's hitting grabbing them without having to resort to pushing them into a wall.

Hes not a bad person but I don't think he realises how unacceptable that is, or am I overreacting?

I’m in a hurry so posting quickly. She’s being assessed for ASD so obviously has those traits to get to the point of being referred. That whole incident could have been avoided with a ten minute then five minute warning for her console. I have a dd with ASD and it’s hard, very hard but he can’t say things like that to her and I speak as someone that had not always managed to hold their own temper in in the face of the most challenging behaviour you can imagine. I found a list of things my dd hated about herself too and it broke my heart. These kids know they’re “different” and their self esteem is just so very fragile because of it not to mention anxiety levels through the roof. And no he CANNOT push her around and on that I’d tell him quite catergorically that if he can’t control himself he has to leave. Your dd is on a precipice if you don’t change the way you interact with and manage her things could go horrible horribly down hill.

Meh, I've always told my children that they can hit and swear at others as much as they want but don't they dare come crying to me when they get hit right back. They need to learn. You can't expect to hit somebody and have them just stand there and take it.

Hi ok, I also have a daughter who's autistic she's 10.

Without sugar coating it, I'd leave him. He has not right to treat her that way.

Oh don’t be ridiculous! Grown men any push little girls so hard into walks that they fall over. What’s wrong with you?

Any = can’t

@CarolDanvers thank you, that's exactly how I feel. of course its hard, of course we all lose our shit, I have several times. He just cant seem to wrap his head round the fact we need to approach her differently than her siblings. in theory he agrees but when it comes down to it he just gets angry and wants her to do as shes told.

I did not expect him to stand there and take it, I would have walked away and then given her a consequence later, or at the most restrained her to stop her but that would just make her worse. I also did slap her on the face (not hard enough to leave even a red mark) before just because she was hysterical and standing in one spot screaming and screaming at the top of her voice and trying to scratch her sister. which I know is still totally unacceptable and I have never and would never do that again. but to push her into a wall so she falls over, what if she had hit her head? its just horrible, hes a big strong man, she is 8!

this was a while ago, not the other day, before I had read up on how to manage her behaviour

I would recommend the Early Bird Plus course for parents of children with ASD, run by the National Autistic Society, it helped us beyond measure when DS1 was younger. Your strategies are good (giving staged warnings before change of activity etc) and your dh needs to be applying them as well, consistency of approach is vitally important for your dd to feel secure. I would also suggest visual timetables and social story cards, both of these helped hugely in heading off confrontations for us.

The physical altercation was completely unacceptable and your dh is entirely to blame for it - he is the adult. You were right that he should have left her to cool down once he had forced things to the point where she was out of control. It sounds as though he doesn't understand her possible ASD and is out of his depth. There is support out there, getting a diagnosis will help but there are many online resources he could access to help him develop better strategies - the onus is on him to improve their interaction, not her. Tell him it can't happen again and he needs to take the initiative.

this is what she wrote
"Dad said he hates me and that I'm a disgusting child. It made me sad when he said he hates me, I will never forget it. He pushed me into a wall and it really hurt and I landed on lots of things and it still hurts. I wish I was never born or dead"

The way he’s behaving in this instance is abusive. One of my children has ASD and is trying at times the other one is just trying, I get it, I get that people lose their shit but to tell her he hates her, call her disgusting, physically hurt her? Not acceptable. He is the adult. It’s his responsibility to walk away before things escalate. As for kicking him in the balls, I wonder if he was frightening her and she lashed out? Either way it doesn’t make it ok to treat his 8 year old like that no matter what the circumstances.

Thank you @Greensleeves I will look at those thank you. I think if she gets a diagnosis he will be better but he doesn't really believe shes autistic till she is told that by a professional. but whether she is or not, these techniques work for her, and she isn't naughty, when shes not having one of these meltdowns she is so so lovely

knittedjest

Meh, I've always told my children that they can hit and swear at others as much as they want but don't they dare come crying to me when they get hit right back. They need to lear

So you're OK with a grown adult who should have some control over their anger hitting a young child and in fact a young child with additional needs who cannot control their emotions? Is one thing a peer hitting back but if you're hitting your children like this it's abuse

He’s not a good dad OP, he’s abusive. If he isn’t signing himself up for parenting and anger management classes he isn’t taking this seriously and doesn’t see what he’s doing.

Just because your daughter may be autistic doesn’t mean she’s fair game to be shoved around because an adult with all the power can’t control himself around her.

This sounds very inflexible thinking and behaviour at best and bullying and abusive at worst on the part of your H. Totally unacceptable, he refuses to treat your dd in the way she NEEDS and then he has a tantrum when she exhibits challenging behaviour (which his inappropriate behaviour towards her caused) NO. Your 'dh' needs to learn to parent the daughter he has not the daughter he thinks she should be. He is an adult and it's his responsibility to adapt for her needs NOT the other way around.

I know that that wasn't ok. But in other ways hes a good dad, that's what I mean. I mean I like to think im a good mum but I did slap her cheek as I said above about a year ago as she was hysterical, not to discipline, or in anger, but to snap her back to reality. but where as I realise that was wrong I don't 'think' it makes me abusive.

You slapped her? It doesn't matter if that was ages ago, both her parents have been physical towards her. Poor child.

@Sistersofmercy101 thank you that's exactly how I feel and you've put what im feeling across very well.

Between you slapping her across the face and him shoving her you are both as bad as each other. Disgusting. Not sure how you’ve awarded yourself the moral high ground on this one! Poor girl.

Yes poor child. I am aware it was awful but she was clawing her sisters skin to bleeding and just repeatedly screaming and screaming high pitched without pausing. it didn't cause a red mark not even slightly, it was to shock her and it worked. I didn't know what else to do, she was attacking my other children like a wild animal. yes it was wrong, and no I wont do it again. but at the time I did not know what to do for ALL my children

No, there’s no excuse but I don’t think it’s particular helpful to post laying into an OP who is seeking help. Autism is so hard to deal with or understand especially when you have no clue it’s even an issue to begin with. The behaviour is beyond anything imaginable at times and you feel utterly helpless in the face of it. OP obviously feels like shit and is trying to be honest. Why post unless you’re going to offer some advice alongside your telling the OP how disgusting she is?

Because people are saying that the OP should leave her husband and that he's being abusive when she's also been physical with the child. That's what I don't like.

OP, it was awful and what your DH did was also awful however you two need to find a way to deal with it and it does sound like going for the diagnosis is the right thing to do.

Your way of giving her warning sounds like it's definitely helping. You both need to get on board with that - your DH needs to start doing that.

Thank you Carol. Im aware it was totally unacceptable. I am. I don't hink it makes me a bad parent just was a bad decision at the time. I felt horrific and that was when I realised this is more than normal 'naughty' behaviour. and I sought help, both to get her assessed and for how myself and dh can manage her behaviour, as obviously, having to shock your child out of acting feral and biting/clawing at siblings obviously isn't right.
maybe what I did was as bad. maybe im just deluding myself and we are just awful parents. this is AIBU after all, im prepared to be in the wrong..

I defy any person, child or adult not to be annoyed if you said “right that’s it come off your phone or stop watching that immediately, no you can’t finish what’s you are doing it’s off”. Time warnings and ‘when you’ve finished that’ is fair I think regardless of any diagnosis.

Obviously the resulting altercation was awful and actually completely unnecessary.
I think I’d sit down and suggest both going on courses to deal with behaviour so your all on the same page. If he’s not interested and continues in the same vain you need to protect your little girl

Jennifer124 Do you have something in place for when she acts so aggressively? Rather than slap her I would take her for time out so she was away from the situation. Physically pick her up of you have to.

Have you read up on de escalation? It's really helpful, I also use it at work as well as with dd when I can sense her anxiety is rising.

What would worry me is that he wasn't so distressed by it or that he didn't tell her. And even if (and I don't think it's acceptable) but even if he said it was instinctive and he apologised, he also said some fking nasty things to his young daughter that probably hurt her more than the push