DH and DD8 fighting

[Jennifer124]

so sorry its long but please read as I need outside perspective.

DD8 is day to day a lovely girl, sweet, caring, kind, but she is waiting to be assessed for autism. she has mild sensory issues and gets overwhelmed easily, when she's mad she can lash out if she's not left alone. Since we realised she may be autistic I have looked into ways to discipline her and talk to her when she's cross that don't antagonise her, we have realised that giving her space in her room, leaving her for a while and then going back and talking to her calmly really helps, rather than trying to reason with her when she's angry.

Anyway, she does much better with warnings, eg, 10 minutes till we leave, 5 minutes till we leave, right were leaving now, rather than saying ok time to go, straight away.

The other day DH asked her to come off the Nintendo switch and get dressed, she said I've just got to finish this, he said no now, she said no, resulted in an argument and she said if he doesn't let her finish it she will smash it. he shouted at her and sent her to her room. I'm not sure of what was said etc as I was in another room but there was a lot of arguing from them, he was in her room (this is where she would have benefitted for having time to cool off, but I think he's more of the opinion if she acts up she needs immediate consequences and telling off, but it just makes matters worse)

I could hear that she was screaming at him to leave her alone and get out and he wouldn't so she was pushing him and hitting him. there was a lot of shouting from both side and a lot of banging, but then he came out and asked me to ask her to get dressed as she wont listen to him.

anyway she was banned from the switch for a certain amount of time, she apologised the next day after id spoken to her, and I thought that was that.

but this morning I read her diary (I know, but its one of the only ways I can see how she's feeling)

this is what she wrote
"Dad said he hates me and that I'm a disgusting child. It made me sad when he said he hates me, I will never forget it. He pushed me into a wall and it really hurt and I landed on lots of things and it still hurts. I wish I was never born or dead"

I rang my husband to tell him, he said she was hitting me and she hit me in the balls what was I supposed to do. I said you should have walked away, he just kept saying yes I know, ill apologise, I know its not right, but tbh it feels like he was just telling me what I want to hear.

I said that saying sorry doesn't mean its not abusive, that abusive people often feel bad and say sorry, it doesn't mean its ok.
he said I know damn well he's not abusive, but what do you call pushing an 8 year old into a wall and telling her you hate her??

For the record he is a good dad, he works hard and he is usually really good with them, he doesn't hit them as a punishment although he can be a bit scary when he shouts but the kids can be hard work. but AIBU to think a grown man can get away from a child that's hitting grabbing them without having to resort to pushing them into a wall.

Hes not a bad person but I don't think he realises how unacceptable that is, or am I overreacting?

My ds is 5, the size of a 7 year old and goes completely feral when hes in meltdown mode, hes drawn blood, bruised and battered me, and its more than likely half the reason why I had to get mutated cells taken out of my chest according to the doctor. I have never ever slapped, smacked or any variation him when hes feral, I phyically move him and lock hin in his room. I'm sorry but DD going feral isnt a fucking excuse to slap her.

No it's excussing OP but there is a difference between a also round the face that didn't leave a mark because she s hysterical and hiding her siblings which caused op to think oh god we need help and pushing her over in to her toys because she hit him whilst he was sorting about how he hated her and she was disgusting etc and then just carrying on like nothing happened.

no its not an excuse. I have said it was wrong. I realised I couldn't control her and sought help for both her and myself on how to control her behaviour.

its the only time I have done that and if you think it makes me a bad parent then I can accept that, I probably am not a very good parent. but im trying, and im trying to better myself.

I have found ways to deal wither as ive said. not crowding her, giving her space , dealing with her when she has calmed down. theres no way carrying her to her room would help, she would kick the door down, she is very strong when she is angry

To me they're as bad as each other, but his was worse. If you take out the physical stuff which is why they're as bad as each other, he's done alot more damage.
I know people who've had kids removed by social for that shit so he best change his behaviour sharpish.

I don't think you're a bad parent, you had a moment, realised that it wasnt acceptable in the slightest and got help. As any truely remorseful parent would. He however hasnt. Now that makes him a bad parent.

Jennifer124 I really feel for you. My teenage DD was/is similar to yours, she is a wonderful loving girl but can't accept 'no' and we used to have battles about the most ridiculous things till I realised my best strategy was to go along with her, she always did and does (99% of the time) make good decisions. I don't limit screen time, set bed time or deny her treats. She works hard, is doing really well at school and takes great pride in having decided to be this way rather than having been 'forced' to be a good girl. That would not have worked. I remember times she'd be hysterically upset because she just didn't understand why something was being asked of her. DH realises that she is a bit different, certainly to DD2 who is massively laid back and does what she's told. The few times he tried to tell her to do something that she didn't want to do there and then (it could be really simple like take your bag out the front room now) and it's escalated, I'm afraid to say I've intervened, calmly, and taken her side because she was the child at the end of the day. DH
then got annoyed with me but I stressed to him that DD is a great girl and we just need to be a bit understanding of the way she works. I've never wanted her diagnosed as I don't think she needs or would get any useful intervention but I've talked to her about it a lot to make her aware of how she responds differently to situations that other people wouldn't find stressful. I've also highlighted how her stubbornness, determination and self belief are great assets. Communication is so important. As to what you should do: get your DH to read up on how to understand the way your DD functions, what triggers her, and how telling her to do something 'because I say so' is the most unproductive thing you could do. I would ask him to apologise to her, sincerely, and allow her to tell him how it made her feel that he said those things. He can hopefully explain that he was really upset, and say he wishes he could take back the things he said and promise never to repeat his behaviour.
I hate the old fashioned notion of treating children badly just because they are children. My DD has always responded best to respect, kindness, love and being able to talk things out as much as she wants to. She's hugely affectionate and a big sharer. Had I been strict and demanded she 'obey' me unquestioningly I know we would have a very different relationship and she'd probably be counting the days till she could leave home.

Sorry for the long post just now; I wanted to share my experience as your DD sounds similar to mine and I've outlined what worked for me, I probably should have opened with that! Good luck.

A slap obviously isn’t great but it’s not on the same scale as what OP’s husband is doing. And whereas OP slapped once and has since taken serious steps to avoid another such incident, her DH is refusing to accept that what he did was wrong and urgently needs addressed.

The thing is, a child is a work in progress, an adult should be the finished article. So if she's screwing up and making poor choices you can guide her and help her make better ones (and I say this as parent to a 13 year old with ASD so I'm not being glib or underestimating how hard it can be to parent a child with ASD in a positive way).

However, as an adult he's done his learning, growing and he is who he is. Without very intensive support and work on himself, this is who he's going to be forever. Can you raise a child with ASD whilst sustaining a relationship with a person who can't control his temper and can't change his behaviours to more positive ones? Can you allow your DD to be threatened and abused by someone who is supposed to be her biggest fan?

It doesn't matter about what he does when he's calm or what a "great" dad he is the rest of the time; those flare-ups are who he is in his very soul, and they're also your child's guide to how she should behave when she's feeling frustrated and angry. All she's doing is replicating his shitty behaviour then being punished for doing so. It's awful for you, but imagine how much more awful it is for a child who is already as overwhelmed by the world as your DD is.

I would be more concerned about him telling her that he hates her. I think that is much more damaging to a child.

I have some sympathy here. My DS1 who is 6 is extremely difficult and has been being assessed for ASD and various other things. Both DH and I have pushed him off us/into his bedroom and he has sometimes fallen into things and we've had to restrain him in a physical way when he's been attacking us or his siblings. We've spoken to HVs and paeds many times about managing his behaviour and they see no alternative when he is being so violent.

I'd be angry with dh in this scenario tho as I would feel he had escalated it to the point where it was necessary by not following the best way of dealing with transitions -ie warnings of impending changes

Also as a PP said I don't think I could forgive dh if he told DS1 he hated him tho. I could forgive a reflex push if punched in the balls way more. DS1 once blinded me in one eye for days by stabbing me in the eye with his finger nail and pulled handfuls of my hair out. I'm pretty sure I pushed him off me then and he landed on a pile of lego.

Your H needs an ultimatum - he changes his attitude and behaviour or he can get out. There are too many people (and most of them are men) who think that ASD is naughtiness and can be cured with punishment.

Not condoning the OP for slapping her child, but the difference between what she did and what her 'DH' did is massive, when the OP did it, she didn't have any knowledge of how best to deal with her DD and did it not only to try and snap her DD out of her meltdown, but to protect her other child, a mothers instinct is to protect their child, and yes her 8 year old DD is still he child but so is the one she was clawing at. The 'DH' caused the meltdown in the first place, was making it worse and then instead of walking away, he pushed her and shouted abuse at her, when he already knows that there are better ways to handle it and just won't accept them.
You need to sit down with him and have a calm talk, once the children are in bed, explain this is how to handle DD, no if's or guy's, this is how it is, if you can't then there is the door.

thank you all shiny that's very helpful thankyou, and its good to see you have a good relationship with your daughter. what you have said is very helpful

Did she intentionally hit him in the balls? That's quite extreme violence from an 8 year old. Did she not mention that in her diary?!

I don't condone hitting a child, but I can see how if someone was causing you extreme pain intentionally, you might lose it and push them away and say things you don't mean. I don't think it's abusive per se, whereas if he had punched her r beaten her he obviosuly would be.

It sounds like he needs to do some reading on autism though.

OP, I think this is going to be one of those threads where you need your hard hat and shinpads on, but if you can stick it out there will be lots of really good useful advice amongst the judgemental posts.

You sound like you have really good instincts and ideas - have confidence in yourself and your abilities. I'd also advise that you proceed as though your dd had a diagnosis, for the purposes of researching strategies and how to parent during the tough times - as you point out, the approaches that work for kids with ASD are pretty good with kids who are struggling for other reasons anyway, and the road to diagnosis can be a long one. Try the National Autistic Society website for good resources and links.

Wow. Poor child. I have an 8yr old who I suspect is on the spectrum somewhere, I also have a 15yr old ds who was diagnosed with ASD when he was 8 so I know how challenging it can be.
However, this note is worrying. What if your dd goes to school today and tells a teacher what happened with her dad? It would be a massive safeguarding issue ( rightly so ) and they would have to inform SS.

Your husband needs to know how serious this is. Your dd certainly does need parenting differently than her siblings. Children are individuals and there isn't a "one size fits all" approach to discipline.

You are obviously at your wits end over it so I won't add to the anxiety but please op speak to your husband about the fact that this can never happen again. And mean it.

thatwasfast she was intentionally hitting him, but I don't know if she meant to get him in the balls

greensleeves thank you, yes there has already been some helpful info, and its ok, im far from a great parent, I really struggle with giving them all the best and I admit I have my hands full but I am trying.

zoflorabore that is exactly what I told dh. if she tells anyone the same as she wrote in her diary, then ss will be involved and rightly so. whether he sees how he acted as abusive or not, her teachers, other adults etc would do and would likely inform someone

Autistic or not the behaviour from your husband will wind up many children, the only thing he should have done when she got violent and shouty is

either

hugged her and told her he loved her but what she was doing was unacceptable (if she would allow this and if it calmed her) and that if the behaviour continued he would need to leave the room

or

told her he loved her, her behaviour was unacceptable and that he was going to leave the room while she calmed down (if this is what you say she needs to calm down then I imagine this would be best choice?) then calmly left -

if my DD runs after me trying to get me to stay then I actually do hug her at that point and again tell her that I love her but I can't accept her behaviour so if it doesn't stop I will need to leave....... 9/10 times she doesn't want me to go so settles.

He is the adult and he needed to remove himself from the situation, not escalate it, she isn't going to learn anything in the moment when she is so wound up.

My parents were abusive, my mum once pushed me hard when I was about 17 (we were yelling at each other during an argument which unfortunately was very normal at our house), I fell off our front veranda, I landed in our driveway flat on my back and wasn't overly hurt, I lay there and laughed... I laughed so I didn't cry, almost 20 years later I can feel the pain of laughing instead of crying.... I didn't want to give my mum the satisfaction of seeing my pain, as you see from your DD's diary it's not just the physical side that hurts.... don't let your husband think pushing his 8 year old is normal or else it will become her normal.

He is meant to be her protector, in moments like those he is losing her trust, don't let your Daughter see it as ok but if he is not usually like this can he apologise and tell her he made a big mistake and that he is not going to do it again? Is that how he feels or do you think that he genuinely thinks what he did is ok?

I think any child, ASD or not would struggle with being told to leave what they are doing immediately! Or someone being in their space when they are frustrated!

Maybe don’t have a different set of rules just for your dd, apply to all your children?

I think he is genuinely upset that she has written that and he has made her feel that way. When I wrote this post I had just come off the phone with him and at the time he was defensive, but he has since texted me to say that he feels awful and is going to apologise and asked me if I feel like the children are safe with him because if not he can leave

I think you need to make it clear to him that this will NEVER happen again and what the consequences will be if it does.

Op I think you sound like a good mum. You are obviously extremely remorseful about the slap and are trying to do your best with all of your children.
It's a learning curve. They don't come with a manual ( if only! ) and my ds is almost 16 and I'm still learning. It never stops.

Hope you feel better about things. The fact that you've posted shows you want help and support. One last thought from me, how about telling your dh about this thread and letting him read it? Some outside perspective and a few home truths may be just what he needs.

He just cant seem to wrap his head round the fact we need to approach her differently than her siblings

Do you think he may see it that by approaching her differently, the other siblings may see it as favouritism or something else? That statement stood out to me as it must be hard trying to be consistent with your children while doing things totally different with one of them.

As an adult I know that different children need different approaches, but as a child, if that was my sibling, I'd be annoyed as it would feel they'd been let of a little. Maybe he wants to avoid that.

It may also be that he's struggling to recognise that she has different needs and be in denial.