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Original poster

To think this punishment for five year old is ok even though mum disagrees

89 replies

Wigwambam10 · 06/01/2019 20:42

My well behaved five year old who has always gone to bed great has suddenly turned into a nightmare. We do before bed ok, getting into pjs fine, teeth fine and then it starts. Tantrums kicking out screaming.

We have tried to reason with him and I have had chats to see if anything is bothering him at night.

He is kicking and hitting but laughing when he does it. It’s come on over the last three weeks. He is fine during the day.

We have tried taking away screen time, toys, sweets etc but nothing is helping.

Now school starts tomorrow and he loves breakfast club which you don’t have to book on. I have told him tonight until he behaves at night there is no breakfast club the next day after he kicks off.

My mum says this is harsh.
What do you think and do you have any tips to help.

OP posts:
Bekabeech · 06/01/2019 21:32

I think you have to deal with your reactions to the laughing - it is infuriating, but often it is a sign that they can't cope with or deal as expected with their emotions.
You could try talking to him about emotions and feelings, and how we can tell what other people feel by expressions.

Also worries often do surface at bedtime. I wish when my kids were younger I had been more prepared for this, and had had the energy and resources to listen to them at bedtime, not think they were being manipulative and just trying to get out of going to bed.

Nettleskeins · 06/01/2019 21:33

I don't think they would know what was wrong if you asked them, that is true enough. Reasoning isn't going to work either.
low key Reassurance and just being boring and present is usually enough to calm things down. Early bedtime good too for that age, but older children of 6 and 7 often aren't ready for bed when you think they are or past the point of no return having been kept up too late.

Mary Poppins (the book) has a good bit when the children are being put to bed by MP for the first time, being quite naughty and she just is there pottering around, and the kids drift off. I remember that now!

shiningstar2 · 06/01/2019 21:34

Has his routine been disturbed over the Christmas period op? For example if he's getting up later over Christmas because he doesn't have to get up for school, he is unlikely to be tired at his usual bedtime. If this is the case you may need to start the bedtime routine a little later until you get him back in his usual routine. You could start it half an hour later at first but by cutting back 5 mins here and there he would still be in bed only 15 mins later? Then once in school routine you can gradually go back to usual times? I used to allow 'not tired' kids to read in bed. Still off the floor for you, which parents need, but less tension and they always fell asleep reading not much later than 'bedtime'.

Soconfusedbylife · 06/01/2019 21:46

Surely if he doesn’t go to bed on time he’ll be too tired for breakfast club anyway? Sounds good to me.

Yabbers · 06/01/2019 21:48

This is a toughie. I think the punishment isn’t harsh, I’m just not sure it is immediate enough. Is tomorrow morning too far away for him to connect? If he did something in the morning, saying no breakfast club would be the right way to do it, but not sure about at bedtime.

That said, as it’s the end of the day, any scope for immediate consequences are limited.

If DD did this, I would leave the room immediately. Say, if you think punching and kicking Mummy is funny, I’m going to say night night and leave the room. We do a bedtime story so it would mean no story. That would stop any palaver as she loves that bit!

Macaroonmayhem · 06/01/2019 21:49

I think that’s fine - naughty behaviour has consequences. Then tomorrow night you can turn it around into a positive, saying if you go to bed nicely tonight, tomorrow you can go to breakfast club.

Yabbers · 06/01/2019 21:53

Also worries often do surface at bedtime. I wish when my kids were younger I had been more prepared for this, and had had the energy and resources to listen to them at bedtime, not think they were being manipulative and just trying to get out of going to bed.

This drives me bananas! She can sit and not talk to us with no problems the whole day, then at bedtime there will be something. She doesn’t want to get out of bed, but there will be an ache or a spot or a rash or something she needs to talk about. Seemingly just to keep me in the room longer. I do get a bit rolley eyed about it. I’m happy to see to it and talk to her for as long as she needs, but when I’ve done that it can be an hour or more and she really suffers losing that much sleep. I need to remember it’s not manipulative but not sure how to deal with it without us still chatting long past when she should be asleep.

ThisHasReallyPIssedMeOff · 06/01/2019 21:56

Present it as a natural consequence of his actions rather than a punishment.

So...

"If you do XYZ at bedtime it means I can't get my jobs done before I go to bed. So I have to do them in the morning instead which means I can't take you to breakfast club"

Then, if it happens, you say in the morning...

"Because you made that choice to XYZ last night, I didn't have time to do my jobs so now I have to do them this morning and so there isn't time to take you to breakfast club."

But, whenever it doesn't happen, say in the morning...

"Thank you for being so sensible last night. Because you did that, it means I got my jobs done so now we can go to breakfast club"

Natural consequences are far more effective than 'punishments'.

It's also really important that you don't ever say, "why can't you be good like this all the time?" or words to that effect. Positive reflection has to be just that - positive.

I did this with both my children.

The eldest is 20 now and we have a really close and trusting relationship. He tells me everything (and says as much) because he's always known that I was a safe person that he could trust with his feelings whether he was being 'good' or 'bad'. That's really powerful.

Willow1992 · 06/01/2019 21:59

He must get a better deal at his school as I use having to go to breakfast club as a threat when my son faffs about taking forever to eat his breakfast and I have never had to follow through. Grin

I would not bring up things like this with your mum in future if she is going to make you doubt yourself over something like this. If that's all that works then that's what you do, and I would bet that actually she would have probably done the same when she had her own child to parent 24/7.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 06/01/2019 22:03

Well once you make a threat it has to become a promise. Otherwise he won't take you seriously.
However have you tried to find out why its happening. Something must be causing it if he's suddenly changed.

Fraying · 06/01/2019 22:22

What happens if he decides he prefers getting breakfast at home? In effect you're handing him control over bedtimes and mornings/breakfast.
It's not a punishment I would use.
I also wouldn't start back to school with a new routine (ie no breakfast club). I think it's important to get them back into their usual routine as quickly as possible.

Doubletrouble99 · 06/01/2019 22:26

I would use breakfast club as an incentive. Tell him he can only go if he settles down and is good and goes to sleep. I would then walk out. I never converse with my children when they start being rude and are trying to wind me up. The only thing I might say is 'never speak to me like that again' in a very firm voice then walk out.
I have two adopted children who had a very bad start in life so this kind of thing can be par for the course but non comital walking away definitely works.

Ribbonsonabox · 06/01/2019 22:27

YANBU that is a direct consequence if behaviour not a punishment. It's TRUE that if he doesn't get to sleep on time he will be too tired to do early morning activities. That's not harsh at all.

Original poster
Wigwambam10 · 07/01/2019 08:59

Well he has got up this morning and we have had a chat. We walked up to school and his teacher said to him “no breakfast club this morning Fred” (not his real name)
I said “are you going to tell mr.............. why Fred?”
Fred- “I have been naughty at night but I am not going to do it again mr.................. I am a good boy and I want to play football at breakfast club”
So here is hoping with fingers crossed

OP posts:
AppleKatie · 07/01/2019 09:34

Sounds great 👍 OP.

AllyPallyMally · 07/01/2019 11:42

Great outcome. Hope he remembers tonight! :)

Lose2StoneObviously · 07/01/2019 12:25

Getting hyper is a sign of being overtired.Maybe need to try bringing bedtime forward a few minutes a day?

Lose2StoneObviously · 07/01/2019 12:26

You should NOT have humiliated him like that in front of the teacher, though!

Macaroonmayhem · 07/01/2019 12:34

I wouldn’t say that was humiliating him, rather its reinforcing - teacher asked him and his reply shows that he’s heard the reason why. Whether he understands it will be shown tonight at bedtime!

ShaggyRug · 07/01/2019 13:45

That’s not humiliating him. That’s him having the reasons reinforced and also a natural consequence of bad behaviour is that others see it in a bad light. If his teachers reinforce that they are not impressed with bad behaviour that’s sending a strong message that nobody finds it acceptable. Well done OP.

Ngp64 · 07/01/2019 14:39

can I ask what is your bedtime routine? Do you kiss goodnight, leave & then he kicks off or is it getting him into the room? Or the time he is going to bed? Have you asked why he is doing this - is he wanting to stay up later, watch something or not wanting to sleep in his room? Sorry if I’m asking what you’ve already said about somewhere & I’ve missed it! Is there anything there that you could get around such as he can have an extra 10 mins and read in bed before lights off, have a nightlight, try moving the room around or new bed so he is sleeping at a different angle (maybe it’s a toy that looks creepy in the dark or shadows etc), have music or audio book to fall asleep to etc.

Sorry to hear you’re having a tough time. Hopefully the start of school will reset him back into routine 🤞🏻

Chamomileteaplease · 07/01/2019 15:10

My first thought would be overtiredness and therefore would bring the bedtime forward. He's only five. Worth a try.

Original poster
Wigwambam10 · 07/01/2019 22:38

Well tonight he has gone to bed like a dream. I am hoping the cycle is broken. Thanks everyone for their advice

OP posts:
SpoonBlender · 07/01/2019 23:23

Yay!

WishUponAStar88 · 07/01/2019 23:27

Yay well done wigwam hopefully that’s the cycle broken

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