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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think this punishment for five year old is ok even though mum disagrees

89 replies

Wigwambam10 · 06/01/2019 20:42

My well behaved five year old who has always gone to bed great has suddenly turned into a nightmare. We do before bed ok, getting into pjs fine, teeth fine and then it starts. Tantrums kicking out screaming.

We have tried to reason with him and I have had chats to see if anything is bothering him at night.

He is kicking and hitting but laughing when he does it. It’s come on over the last three weeks. He is fine during the day.

We have tried taking away screen time, toys, sweets etc but nothing is helping.

Now school starts tomorrow and he loves breakfast club which you don’t have to book on. I have told him tonight until he behaves at night there is no breakfast club the next day after he kicks off.

My mum says this is harsh.
What do you think and do you have any tips to help.

OP posts:

BlueJava · 06/01/2019 20:58

Sounds a reasonable and relatable punishment to me.

Birdsgottafly · 06/01/2019 20:58

The punishment is a good choice.

However if it was one of my Grandchildren, I might think it harsh

lightlypoached · 06/01/2019 20:58

You could try doing it the other way round. ‘When you go to bed with no fuss you can go to breakfast club’ threat being if you play up you won’t - rewards good behaviour and encourages the positive.

NWQM · 06/01/2019 20:58

Sounds ideal. It’s a direct consequence. Bed on time you get to play football. Don’t you have to have a slower paced morning as you’ll be tired.

Mookatron · 06/01/2019 20:59

I dunno. I suppose it's worth a try but the trouble is if it doesn't work you have to escalate - forever, because maybe it's emotions he's suffering from rather than behaviour he's doing.

Presumably he's not going tomorrow. Make a big, positive deal about being calm at bedtime so he can go (rather than focusing on not going off he doesn't behave). See what happens. I must say I'd be feeling more concerned than punishing-y, personally.

WYP2018 · 06/01/2019 20:59

I’m not sure a 5 year old would make the link between a punishment in the morning with what went on the night before? Has his routine been disrupted with Christmas/school hols. He will probably just settle down again once back into school routine.

If it were me I’d say any tantrums and I’m leaving the room and you stay there on your own until you are calm. Don’t think I’d go any further than that. If he makes a mess in his room during he has to tidy it etc.

IncomingCannonFire · 06/01/2019 21:01

It's fine as a consequence.
However, I would try to work out why he is misbehaving. Over tired/not tired enough/ etc.
My 4.8yo ds has been really misbehaving. Last term was really hard work for him. He's settled down over Christmas and hopefully the new term will be a bit calmer.
We implemented a reward jar, so he earns stars for being kind to his little brother, good listening, eating all his dinner, etc.
3 stars get him 15mins of screen time.
We also have chats about how we expect him to behave an hour or so before an event. Eg an hour or two before bedtime we'd have a chat about settling down nicely. How kicking makes us feel, etc.
He also recently became scared of the dark amongst other things. Becoming aware of the concept of death and other things. A cuddly toy he got at Christmas and a dressing gown hung on the door were scaring him in the dark. Could it be something like this?

missyB1 · 06/01/2019 21:02

Remember tantrums feed on attention. Close that door walk away and ignore. Do not engage at all.

Original poster

Wigwambam10 · 06/01/2019 21:03

I would leave him in his room but I am worried he will damage something or even worst himself. Everything my mum sees him he is a little angel, he can’t imgine him behaving like this.

I am going to make a big think of go to bed well tonight and you get to go to breakfast club tomorrow so it becomes positive reinforcement

OP posts:

KittyClaus · 06/01/2019 21:04

What time does he go to bed OP?

Original poster

Wigwambam10 · 06/01/2019 21:07

Half seven starts winding down at about quarter to seven. Tv is always off and we play a gentle game or read an extra book. Then bath followed by teeth brush. Then we got into his room he chooses a book and that’s when it starts.

It is taking about an hour to settle him but may god that hour is just him shouting hitting screaming telling me he hates me

OP posts:

Original poster

Wigwambam10 · 06/01/2019 21:09

When he calms down He says his tummy is aching and I tell him it’s because he has got so mad and angry it’s making his tummy ache.

I am 95% sure there is no tummy ache

OP posts:

NotTheFordType · 06/01/2019 21:10

I would leave him in his room but I am worried he will damage something or even worst himself.

So with his behaviour, he is controlling the amount of time and attention he gets from you?

abbsisspartacus · 06/01/2019 21:10

Breakfast club sounds like a social thing anyway

Smellyrose · 06/01/2019 21:11

My DD gets lots of tummy aches to do with nerves going to school - could he be worried about going back?

There’s nothing wrong at school, I think it’s just the thought of going.

FiveNightsAtMummys · 06/01/2019 21:12

Would he remember in the morning? I don't think it's a bad idea but maybe have something immediate aswell? Like he gets a star on the chart if he does bedtime good and a star means he can go to breakfast club. Sort of earning it rather than removing it?

Worsethingshappen · 06/01/2019 21:14

This punishment is not a good idea. Please judge someone’s credentials before taking advice.
Eg a qualified child psychologist approach such as dr Laura markham, has website “aha parenting”.
I don’t mean to sound unkind but the suggested punishment is not going to work. You will get more frustrated and angry, and then you will have to escalate the punishment. There will be an increase in negative emotion between you both and more problems will develop. This will continue until the weaker person is forced into submission. And no useful child development will have occurred.

Chinnychinnychinnychib · 06/01/2019 21:17

Funnily enough my 5yo has gone a bit feral lately, ‘play fighting’ that’s aggressive, resisting bed etc - I think a combo of holidays, Christmas, age and stage...breakfast club is a big draw in our house too, they bloody love it, who knows why, maybe the weetabix is more glamorous there than here? Anyway, I said tonight that if I don’t see that she can manage at bedtime that will mean that maybe breakfast club is not a good idea - she was off brushing teeth like a shot and is now busily playing unicorns in bed. She’s not asleep which is not ideal but she’s probably excited for school tomorrow. But whatevs. Don’t worry op. You did the right thing!

NotTheFordType · 06/01/2019 21:18

It is taking about an hour to settle him but may god that hour is just him shouting hitting screaming telling me he hates me

Cross post. Walk the fuck away OP, and tell him why you're doing it. "It's not right for you to scream at me and hit me. That hurts. It's bedtime now so you go to sleep." If you're seriously worried about him harming himself then put a hidden webcam in his room so you can monitor him.

Did this behaviour start prior to having an overnight (or put to bed) by someone not his regular caregiver? Because most of this screams attention-seeking, but there's a part of me that wonders if he's scared of bedtime for some reason. Could be as simple as he slept at granny's house and he woke up after a nightmare and didn't know where he was. Or he called for mummy and someone else came in and told him to STFU or he'd get a smack.

LL83 · 06/01/2019 21:19

YANBU.

Ask your mum what she suggests as punishment? It's not that bad.

Like what posters have said about spinning it as a reward for going to bed well.

AppleKatie · 06/01/2019 21:23

I think it’s fine. At 5 he will definitely understand and link the two things I think.

I might try a sticker chart approach instead if I was feeling generous.

Nettleskeins · 06/01/2019 21:28

I would just stay in his room a bit longer. In the dark just sitting there quietly whilst he goes to sleep.

We tried the tough love approach to bedtime for three kids of that age, and began to realise that just hanging around for 30 mins more without reading a story or doing anything but just being there, perhaps gently chatting was the reassurance that was needed.

They get very anxious sometimes but cannot articulate it, and it comes out as hysteria (the laughing) and fear that you are leaving them. The firmer and angrier you get at their behaviour the more anxious and angry they get.

My kids just didn't want to be alone as they fell asleep at that age, having had a perfectly wonderful bedtime routine in the years before. It was as if a light went on and they had all sorts of new ideas and fears that they hadn't had before, a developmental stage if you like.

Arguing and taking children back to bed when they came downstairs becomes a very predicable struggle. I found just cutting the crap and sitting with them saved SO much time. And they fell asleep in 20 mins max with me sitting there quietly.

Believeitornot · 06/01/2019 21:28

My dd went through a phrase like this at 5 at about this time of year.
She’d started school in September - I think it was just a case of being massively over tired and wanting attention. It was only ever at bedtime.

In the end she needed a much earlier bedtime and for me not engage when she kicked off.

Don’t rise to the laughing. He’s 5, it sounds like he’s lost control a bit. Stop asking what’s wrong, just keep it simple. Any hitting, walk off. Any rudeness, walk off.

billybagpuss · 06/01/2019 21:29

This is all out of routine behaviour, the excitement of Christmas, Schools going back too late, life hasn't been normal for several weeks. Next week he will get very tired but I would imagine this playing up will stop.

SpoonBlender · 06/01/2019 21:30

YANBU. Sounds like the perfect thing.

If it doesn't clear up quick, get your mum in to do bedtime. She'll either be thrown out the door or DS will settle due to the strangeness (and maybe that'll break the cycle). Win win either way.

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