AIBU to wonder if surrogacy is a bit cruel?

[NRGR]

Firstly I'd like to say I think someone being able to give a couple the opportunity to be parents is a lovely thing! I don't mean this in a nasty way.

When a baby's born they say they instantly know who mum is, by the sound of her voice, her smell, heartbeat etc. So taking that into account, is it a bit mean to take that baby after it's born and pass it straight to someone else? One of the first things they say to you when you have a baby is have plenty of skin to skin because you are all the baby really knows.

Surely regardless of whether the surrogate used her own eggs or not, as far as the baby's conserned she is mum and she will be the one the baby wants.

"Cruel" is the wrong word I think but it just made me wonder.

Xpost with you Pissed, I wondered the same thing. That doesn't sound like surrogacy at all to me.

I haven’t read past page 1 but I have wondered about adoption. Someone I know adopted a baby a similar age to my youngest, about 10 months, and she had been in foster care since birth. It made me sad to think of her wondering what was going on ☹️ She’s fine, but I did wonder what must she have been thinking taken from the only carer she knew.

During the 6 hrs I was with my birth mum I was given a feed by her maybe that explains why I felt familiar feelings when I found her years later

Augusta once money enters the equation, (I specifically stated commercial surrogacy, which I'm willing to bet is ALWAYS richer people paying poorer women to take on the risks of pregnancy and birth) I do believe the choice stops being a truly free one.

Then why isn’t everyone doing it?

I am against people being able to go to third world countries where there genuinely is little free choice. But I think to suggest that in the US where commercial surrogacy is legal, to say women are ‘forced’ to do it is, yes, laughable. For a start the people who are wealthy enough to do it aren’t exactly going down to the projects and rustling up random hoodrats to carry their babies. It’s a highly selective business where the women who do it are thoroughly vetted, referenced, tested and healthy.

Add into the equation that otherwise these women could spend decades working without making that sort of money and it gives them opportunities most people will never have, then it’s difficult to see how it’s forced. If it was genuinely forced then surely every family who were a bit hard up would be renting out the maternal womb. But they’re not.

It’s an exchange only a few people are prepared or capable of taking so for those to be described as forced is way wide of the mark.

I was terribly poorly when DD was born - very severe pre-eclampsia, she was prem, both of us in ICU (her for 5 days). Very little physical contact until we both left hospital.

We have always had a wonderful and very close relationship. She's now a teenager and the lack of "skin to skin" contact immediately after birth hasn't affected her at all. I always assumed that was a myth perpetuated by the natural birth brigade.

There are a number of ethical concerns about commercial surrogacy in the US. This is an interesting read.

www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2017/04/19109/

This has crossed my mind alot! I need a surrogate to carry a child for me and dh, the baby will be biologically mine and dh, (my egg his sperm), however on the other hand I am really struggling woth anxiety and worry if I will bind the same as other women with my baby because I haven't carried them myself.

In the US there are conditions to meet before you can become a surrogate, such as not being allowed to do so if you rely on their benefits system. So they go some way into trying. Don't get me wrong I have issues with the US system but things like that are put in place so that vulnerable people desperate for an out aren't taken advantage of.

There was nothing forced about my decision to be a surrogate. Whatsoever. It was a choice i freely made, i actively sought out the info & the means to do it.

@pissedoffdotcom

I am currently in the US, I am not 100% sure about what the laws and ins and outs are like here but it obviously can be done that way here because they did.

I think it's not that uncommon here to use donnors and a surrogate?

I don't know if they went through an agency because they found their surrogate through a friend (though of course the donors were anonymous) and there was no monetary compensation (which she would have been entitled to through an agency I believe).

Yeah the rules are different. There is a surrogacy agency in the US that was originally born here - the BSC - that moved because there is more 'choice' in the US. If any of you have ever watched 'Jodie Marsh is making babies' you'll have seen their disgusting attitude. Picking egg donors or surrogates out of a catalogue, ranked by looks (based on a modelling career).

We did a magazine article about our journey & I was approached by the UK branch of BSC to see if I would join - they told me the expenses I would receive without even assessing my circumstances. Thankfully the other agencies seem to allow that to be a decision made by the IPs & surro

pissed, I was interested in doing an altruistic one in the UK too. Purely because all my children are from assisted conception and I know what it feels like to be potentially not going to be a parent. I get pregnant very easily with assisted conception and with multiples every pregnancy so far. Unfortunately I have a problem with retaining my placenta at the very end of pregnancy which means my births have a slightly higher (but still manageable) risk attached which makes me unsuitable. It’s a shame though. I remember what it was like becoming a mother when I’d thought it may never happen for me, I would have loved to be able to give another woman that opportunity. It must be very emotionally rewarding to be able to do that.

Pissedoffdotcom - I wish you all the luck in the world, you’ll make a brilliant mum, and I’m so sorry becoming a parent hasn’t been easy for you.

My mum has said time and time again that she loved me exactly like any parent loved their child. The fact that she was never pregnant herself did not change that love. I have no doubt it will be the same for you.

She never thought to ask the surrogate about her family history because she saw me as her own child, but whilst it didn’t matter to her that we were unrelated, it mattered greatly to me.

Some people feel about a surrogate mother in a similar way as a biological mother, the person who carried them and gave birth to them may be considered a mother of sorts to them (or not).

If your child has questions, answer as honestly as you can in a way that is age appropriate. Let them know that it doesn’t hurt your feelings if they want to know more about their birth - it is absolutely their right and it is so natural to want to know where you came from, and your family history. It does not mean that they love you any less if they do want to learn more.

In that vein, please please please ask the surrogate as much as you can about her family history (not just her medical history). Even if she is a gestational surrogate with no biological connection to your child, it may still be important them.

My parents didn’t ask their surrogate about her family history. I have no idea what my grandparents names are, nor where her (and my) family came from. All I have is some photos and a name, and a google search that tells me that name is of either German or Jewish origin. I struggle with “not knowing” to this day.

Keep in (occasional) contact with your surrogate if possible, and let her become a part of your child’s family story. Even if it’s a letter once a year it is so important. This will not in any way threaten your relationship with your child.

Augusta it's people like you that i admire. The desire to help is a strong one, but knowing that you will be putting yourself at higher risk decided against it. I always said it was harder to not do it when you want to, than doing it when you know you can, if that makes sense?

CGaus i have two children of my own 🙂 i carried a surrogate baby girl in 2015 for a gay couple. We are still in touch, i get regular photos & they get photos of my kids too. She knows that I carried her - altho at 3 she has a very fairytale idea that she grew in my tummy & i pushed my belly button & out she popped 😂 they are always honest with her so I have no doubt she will grow up knowing she was very wanted, is very loved & has a very supportive network

No it wasn’t because of a higher risk to me, well there would have been a bit higher, the main risk would be to the baby. I’ve had two EMCS because of quite suddenly occurring problems with the placenta at the end of pregnancy and it doesn’t retain the connection between me and the baby. Thankfully no problems with my children, but the main risk is to the baby if it goes too long without the support it needs from the placenta before being delivered. Could lead to disability or even death and any pregnancy would need to be closely very, very closely monitored.

I’m sure you can imagine that when parents have been through the heat break they have to get that far, it’s a risk the don’t want to take. It’s lovely you’ve been able to do it and I really admire people who have.

Kokeshi123 That study only goes up to 10 year old children. What about studies that show the effect on adults? Many of my friends have felt uneasy with their parents decisions since having their own children, many of them would struggle with the idea they were a surrogate baby (as would I).

CGaus thank you for sharing your experience. Have you ever shared your experience with researchers, as it's exactly your experience as a surro born child that needs to be understood to inform the 'what are the long term effects' question

I don't know if we will proceed with any of my friends who have offered, as I struggle with the ethics of surrogacy for both surro and child greatly. And tbh even if the outcomes were fine, I know I'd be judged as selfish. I just don't know what we'll do.

I don't understand why people would use both sperm donor and egg donor rather than adopt. Having one or the other donor, I can understand as the baby is genetically related to one parent, but when the baby isn't related to either it seems more like using a catalogue for choosing traits to try and make the perfect baby, which makes me feel uneasy.

kpo good point, is it possibly the certainty of getting a newborn rather than the waiting for panels and available children who are likely to be older and possibly have additional needs. I have the impression that in America money is key whether adopting or surrogacy. Can a UK couple go to USA and adopt or go through surrogacy there?

@Kpo
In the case of this specific family their first choice was actually adoption but the agency they were with went bankrupt and of course all the families that belonged to the agency ended up running to other local agencies and of course waiting list were long, they are in their early/mid 40's so adoption agencies told them that their chances of becoming a parent through them were small and if they could do surrogacy it would be their best shot at being parents.

I don't know why they had to use both donors but I assume it's related to the mum having had cancer in the past and the father having a chronic autoimmune disease, I know they didn't pick the donors on beauty criteria and their criterias were actually more based on their personality and religious background/health history.

Linning I'm afraid that i don't think that couple should have decided to become parents. Both had serious health issues and both are on the older side.

The mum had cancer 10 years ago (so seem a bit drastic to rule out ever becoming a parent due to having had cancer a decade ago) and the father lives a normal life if not for medication and needs bit more sleep than most.

I wouldn't have chosen to be parents of a young baby under their conditions BUT I don't judge them for wanting to.

There are plenty of people without medical issue that probably shouldn't be parents, they are well established in their career, are very comfortable financially, and can provide the baby with the love and support he needs to thrive through life.

How were they able to become the legal parents of that child though Linning, when there was no genetic link? Presumably the process would have to be adoption anyway? In which case it sounds like they basically created an adopted child 'to order' because there was too much competition for existing children.

Gummy That is a good point. Many women feel okayish about their childhoods until they have kids themselves. Then they look at their only child and say, how could you have done x, y or z to me.

I'm guessing the logic of creating an unrelated surrogate baby over adopting is that said baby would be assumed to have less baggage.

kpo and menztoray, go back and read my earlier post about adoption.

Personally I’m of the opinion that people who know absolutely zip, zero and fuck all about adoption and how it works really shouldn’t be sitting on internet forums telling other people to adopt on the basis of complete ignorance of adoption.