to feel we're in some kind of meltdown after my father-in-law died?

[marvik]

My father in law died in November. He was 97, had moderate to severe dementia and had been living in a care home for the last year.

I'd been very involved with his care although the main responsibility was my husband's. My own father died ten years ago so I had come to think of my father in law as a kind of father to me. He was kind and affectionate towards me.

When he died I was involved in helping to organise the funeral and the 'do' afterwards, as well as trying to support our daughter and my stepchildren for whom it was really their first experience of loss. (When other elderly relatives had died, they'd been so young they had barely taken it in and/or couldn't remember the relatives.)

Although obviously, the major loss is my husband's, I think he found the burden of looking after him very heavy. He'd sometimes get angry about the fact that he had this responsibility because his father - a drinker and smoker - lived such a long time. He was very brisk and matter of fact after his father died. Concerned mostly with the practical arrangements, sorting probate etc. He then fell ill in the period immediately before Xmas - perhaps as a result of the stress. He was a bit difficult to look after at this time, because he hates being ill.

I saw the New Year as a chance to move forward to a happier place. A few weeks ago we had agreed that one thing we would do is plan a holiday together to a place I'd enjoy - with some of the money from my father in law's estate. (My husband knows that I tend to like walking in beautiful landscape and get easily overwhelmed by crowded places and big cities.) This would be a sort of 'thank you' from my husband in acknowledgement of the practical help and emotional support I'd given him over the last couple of months,

So yesterday we went for a walk and I asked him about his hopes for the New Year, and what he might do now that his father's estate was getting sorted out.. He said he was planning to go to Spain for a month on his own to study Spanish and board with a Spanish family to increase his fluency. But that he also wanted us to go to New York.

Sometimes I feel as if we're not really married at all. If that makes sense. Does it?

It sounds like he's provoking you in a way- I can't imagine any husband thinking that's an OK suggestion. I'd put it down to grief for now and say "how lovely" and discuss it again closer to the time. I imagine it won't happen at all and he's being a bit of an arse and looking for a reaction.

If he is still dead set on it when it comes to a time when you have to book it then I'd have serious concerns.

He may not be thinking straight.

Remind him that he offered to take you both somewhere that you would like to go to and you thought that was really kind and thoughtful of him. Then tell him that wouldn't be New York because you don't enjoy cities.

I can certainly relate to that.

I think you need to say that if he's planning to leave you on your own for a month, then we need to have a serious chat about the logistics and my feelings towards this.
You don't say how old the DD/DSC are. He can't just swan off leaving you to cope with school aged children without so much as a by your leave.

Well if they are things he wants to do, why not.
Why can’t you do those things and go on a nice walking holiday somewhere.

Forget the New Year thing. It’s just the year on the calendar changing, no more than that. His father died only weeks ago. He’s still just starting to process that. Just go along with the ideas now and see if they come up again a few months down the line when he is a bit further down the grieving process, and address them then if needed.

I'm not sure that grief and stress is an excuse for him just casually mentioning that he's planning to check out of your marriage and family life for a month. No discussion, no debate. That's not okay. When I lost my mum I was a mess and DH was a rock throughout. There were times I was irrational and silly and Dh put up with it. But I didn't lose the plot completely.

I think you need to discuss this with DH. I also think you're grieving as well and it's possible he doesn't realise that. Ditto, he needs to be supporting his children who are also grieving. To be honest, what helped me the most was the need to be there for my children. It helped keep me in control.

Children are pretty much grown up now. One back home but doing temporary work till the end of January and with a full-time traineeship starting in September. Her plans are uncertain between the end of the temporary work and the starting of the traineeship.

I don't think going to Spain for a month would really work as a holiday for me. He'd have a particular purpose - immersion in Spain and the Spanish language, and my presence as somebody who hardly speaks the language would hold him back. I certainly wouldn't stop him from going if this is what he wants to do. He is now free from the responsiblity of looking after his father.

Yes, I could do the New York trip although I think I'd have to make an effort to deal with a very busy, buzzy urban environment. It wouldn't be my first choice for a relaxing holiday - though I can see that it would be possible to get a lot out of a trip. I like galleries and museums when I do visit cities.

And yes, a third trip could be planned - even though the money left by my father in law is really not huge.

I was taken aback by my husband's ideas and proposals.

I am sorry you've had this loss but I do think that your seeing the proposed holiday as a sort of thank you is a bit off.

A colleague (and friend) died suddenly this year.

I felt non-functioning for about a month, and deadened to everything for a further month. Even now some time down the line things hit and I'm caught unawares by my emotion.
Silly things like I was watching a programme with ds and the air ambulance was scrambled (as it was with her) and I was struggling to breath and couldn't concentrate on anything for ages afterwards.

You go over things a million times. Maybe if I'd said this/done that. I should have done this while they were still here. What if we'd done...

I didn't (to my knowledge) make any silly snap decisions over that time. But I could have done. A mixture of feeling of needing to get away (even getting into the work building at times was hard) and never come back, and just that things didn't matter.

As it was his father, I'd multiply that by thousands for your dh.

What's your ideal trip you would do without him? Trekking somewhere? Why not do that while he's in Spain.

It sounds like he wants a break from his whole life to get himself straight: new country, new family, new language. Maybe he's right, maybe not. What do you need?

Yes, I imagine he is still processing things.

But his behaviour is quite odd. For example, the day after the funeral I had imagined he might want to sit and talk for a bit. (Organising the funeral was a very busy affair.) But at breakfast he just announced that he wanted to go into town and buy a coat.

I was going, 'Really. Today? I mean you've got a coat haven't you. Several coats. Can't it wait till tomorrow.'

And he kept insisting he had to go that day.

I think he found his father's dementia really difficult. He'd rage to me about his father. He'd rage about how his father wasted his money when he was younger and now what remained was all being spent on his care. He'd talk about the time his father threw him out of the house. How his father sent him away to school from the age of 8.

Which of course, doesn't mean he isn't grieving.

But I tried to support him through all of this - and I think my own personal well has now run dry.

And yes. Brilliant idea to go away by myself. Shall think on that one as part of my planning for the New Year.

It’s a bit strange that your husband was going to take you on holiday as a thank you for your emotional and practical support. Was this his idea or yours? Surely providing support to your spouse is what you do when their parent is dying. And holidays are to be decided by both of you, not for one person to take the other somewhere.

Sounds like you’re two people sharing a home. He has chosen destinations that are all about him, but to be fair your choices were also all about you. He sounds like a Dick to be fair, but that won’t change his decisions, and seriously, moving in with a Family in Spain, get real, this is most ridiculous thing I ever heard

Your DH is grieving a profound loss. Losing people who have lived 'too long' and aren't enjoying life any more is doubly hard, because you grieve for the loss of the person, for the shell they have become and their suffering in age and illness. And you feel guilty because you wish they'd died, often not entirely for selfless reasons, and finally now they have.

Eldercare is notoriously draining and often unrewarding. Cut DH some slack. I think Spain sounds a great idea. Who would be threatened by a month apart? Just don't let him book any tickets yet, he'll probably go off the idea shortly. Do start looking at the sort of family holidays you like.

I think the 'thank you' or 'treat' or something was his idea.

My elderly mother lives some distance away but in accommodation which is suitable for the elderly. I have two siblings one of who lives near. So although we see her every few months, there is no actually 'caring' to be done, though we did visit more in the year after my father died

With my father in law, there has been a good deal of care - because he's been on his own since I met my husband. The only other son lives abroad. And it used to be me who took him to medical appointments etc because of the nature of my husband's job.

So yes, it is what married people do. But I've done a lot for my father in law, whereas my husband has done nothing for my mother.

And that is presumably why my husband had originally proposed that we both go on holiday, but that on this occasion the holiday should be one that I would particularly enjoy.

(Our recent holidays abroad - which I'd enjoyed had also been chosen because he'd got particularly interested in Spain and learning Spanish. So perhaps he'd felt at that point it was now 'my turn' to choose the destination.)

Oh, and from what your DH is indicating re resentment, I suspect he and his DF had a very difficult relationship. Which death has not healed - in fact, it sounds as if the care fees were the final straw. Hard, very hard, to deal with for your DH.

I think you are expecting a lot here after a very short period of time. He has a lifetime of attachment and experiences to process, you have only years.

I see your idea of him taking you away as a thank you very odd tbh, very much making all of this about you. It isn't about you...when I started reading that sentence in your OP I was expecting it to read something along the lines of something therapeutic for him...but no. And you asked him because you wanted him to tell you what he was going to do for you and are disappointed that you haven't features higher in his thoughts.

Provided he is normally a good husband, and your marriage is normal etc then this doesn't strike me as odd. You don't have kids to juggle, perhaps suggest meeting in Spain at the end of his month and go for a quiet week somewhere.

My OH had a difficult relationship with his Mother. Father who was delightful died and he coped hell. When his mum died he went to pieces. I think he is not thinking straight just now.

He'd talk about the time his father threw him out of the house. How his father sent him away to school from the age of 8

If the relationship was difficult then you may find your husband is actually grieving for several people at once.

Because of the dementia he’ll be grieving for the father who died recently and the father that was lost to the dementia before. Dementia is a very hard thing to deal with and can leave you feeling like the person was lost long ago, yet physically still there.

Plus if there is unresolved resentments he may also be grieving for the father he hoped to have one day. The father he wanted. When my (abusive) father died I found the loss of the father id always hoped to have one day, even though I knew it wouldn’t happen, the hardest one to grieve.

I don’t think that there are anything wrong with his ideas. He may change his mind again anyway.

No matter how close you were I don’t think you can understand their relationship. He has hang ups about being sent away and dementia would have meant that he wasn’t the father that he knew.

You both lost a special person in your life but both had very different relationships with. Yes you have been there with your father but you are not him, people grieve in different ways.

I was given a pot plant after my mother in law passed away as a ‘thank you for caring for her’ gift. It stunned me. It hurt me. I didn’t want thanking and I didn’t want a present. I would do it again and again even though it nearly broke me. I felt like ‘an outsider’. She wasn’t my mother and I can see now that I was selfish in my upset over a pot plant (I didn’t ever express these feelings to the family).

Grief does some very strange things to people. And in this case, it's probably compounded by guilt, as in a way he is relieved that his father finally died.

I don't think he's in a position to think straight right now. If you have any ideas / preferences for plans, I think it should be you who brings them up and organises them.

And if he wants to go to Spain for a month on his own, that's not really so odd - as a PP said, you can meet up with him there later and have a holiday together.

Yes, I don't think I understand my partner at the moment.

He is a very operational person and says he is over it. If I say well it's early days, or is there stuff he wants to talk about, he doesn't want to talk

I think as women we place a very high value on unselfish, generous, caring. I think it takes a toll. We don't expect small children to acknowledge this and thank us. But it is good when adults can do this.

Perhaps I find it hard that my husband is so caught up in whatever he is going through at the moment, that I am rather left alone. And maybe a more conventionally saintly woman, would just find caring for men - her husband, her husband's father - rewarding in itself.

At present though, I am not that woman.

Perhaps I find it hard that my husband is so caught up in whatever he is going through at the moment, that I am rather left alone.

@marvik, I understand that you are in pain too, I really do. But you can't compare your own grief to your husband's. He's lost his father - it's one of the most serious losses a human being goes through. And if he had a difficult relationship with him, it will be much harder for him to process (even if he claims that he's over it, etc. etc.)

Don't take what he says and does for some time too personally. And if you need support, perhaps you could talk to a grief counsellor, or similar. I don't think your husband is in a position to help you now (and this is not gender-specific, I would say the same if your sexes were reversed).

Ive seen people do and say strange things when they are grieving. It could take months or years for him to recover. He may need some time alone. He may never be the same again