Disgusted at how the UK government will charge EU nationals £65 and no iPhone app

[Rosepetalgeranium]

Even if someone has been here working hard and paying tax for decades they will have to pay £65 to stay and there's only an android app to apply not even an iPhone app!

@MrsAriadneOliver

Yep. Unless you’ve lived it or I guess experienced it with a non white comparison it’s eaually hilarious and embarrassing that people are painting the UK in a racist light whilst claiming the EU isn’t. People say Leavers can be “I’m alright, Jack” types, I think they need to look at themselves when they make those sorts of comments.

I thought some Leavers voted Leave so that UK would treat non-EU immigrants same as EU immigrants. I can find examples of those statements...

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/02/20/the-british-asian-vote-for-brexit-contains-a-few-surprises/

Difference between democracy & majoritarianism is worth reading up on; the latter has no automatic provision for rights of minorities, for instance.

Majoritarianism is a traditional political philosophy or agenda that asserts that a majority (sometimes categorized by religion, language, social class, or some other identifying factor) of the population is entitled to a certain degree of primacy in society, and has the right to make decisions that affect the society. ......Majoritarianism is sometimes pejoratively referred to by its opponents as "ochlocracy" or "tyranny of the majority".

@planespotting nailed it again. I keep coming on this thread to respond only to find that she (?) has already done so.

@DGRosseti

If you’re going to quote Churchill quoting someone else, what actually said is:

Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

Nothing we know of works better than a democracy. Don’t pretend you’d rather live under a dictator just because democracy didn’t work in your favour this time.

@ragged - interesting, thanks.

@Lndnmummy

@pointythings

By endlessly going on about 'the will of the people' irrespective of the fact that it was 52/48. That's tyranny of a tiny majority. It's constantly glossed over that the difference between Leave and Remain was tiny

And yet people say the 700,000 (smaller amount) was a huge turnout, huge enough to reconsider the vote. Still, it makes sense in 2018, in a time where men can turn themselves into women by declaring so, that a smaller number is of huge significance and a higher number is a tiny majority

@DGRossetti: clearly no guarantee yet, as it hasn't been agreed, but it's in the draft withdrawal agreement. No idea what happens in a 'no deal' scenario though.

Someone reminded us further up the thread that UK citizens living in the EU are equally affected. I have a family member currently living in Germany and in the last few years other family members have worked in France, Italy and Spain, though none decided to settle permanently in those countries.

I totally agree with that but my point is that quite a lot has been learned since about what leaving would actually mean since voting and that learning has actually changed the mind of some people

But it could equally go the other way, no? People who voted Leave didn’t necessarily think it would be easy, but still thought it would be for the better in the long run. Some people may change their minds now they see it’s difficult and complicated- others may become even more determined that it should happen regardless, because they genuinely think it’ll be worth it.

Ha! Try being non white and living or travelling in ANY country within the EU. You’ll soon see racism then. The UK is the least racist country out of the EU to non white people
And I agree to an exfend. That's why I loved living in the UK. It was known for its tolerance of differences. This is why I still love being here and why I hope the UK is not going to turn like the others.

All started with the cuts in benefits and the propaganda that these cuts came as a result of foreigners. Pensioners lost out? It must be due to these foreigners claiming benefits. Can't get an appointment with my GP, that's the fault of foreigners registering with the practice. Can't get my kids into the best school, it's the fault of those foreigners who moved in the catchment area. Can't get tax credits for my 3rd child any longer, that's the fault of those foreigners with multiple kids.

@MrsAriadneOliver, maybe, maybe notbut will never know since a new referendum was rejected. My gut feeling is that Brexit, if it does happen will be nothing like what the leavers expected or the stay feared.

@swingofthings

People can be unhappy with high immigration quotas. It doesn’t make them racist or intolerant. They’re totally different things.

@swingofthings

I don’t disagree with you

We’re entering the abyss of the unknown.

But what can be done about it? The more I read in the news every day the more hopeless I feel. What can any of us actually do? We like to think our voices matter, but they don’t

So get involved. Join a political party, and begin to influence party policy, and have a say in the people selected as candidates to stand for election.
Engage with local politics - stand as a Cllr, or support someone who does.

Democracy is a privilege, and it isn't easy - if we all sit back and assume someone else will represent our views, we shouldn't be surprised when we discover that there is no one in the running that we can support.

Oh God, 26 pages. Do I have to read all of these before I comment?

I'll risk it.

Hell, as a NON-EU immigrant, I had to pay around £1000 to apply. That wasn't even a guarantee of getting the LTR. I WISH mine had been £65 and via an app rather than being a massive application form and interview.

Maybe you should have RTFT before making the same entirely irrelevant point as a number of other people.

So get involved. Join a political party, and begin to influence party policy, and have a say in the people selected as candidates to stand for election. Engage with local politics - stand as a Cllr, or support someone who does.

All sounds fantastic. I don’t disagree with you in principle. But when you’re a SAHM with 3DC, a DH who works abroad half the month and a terminally ill mum to nurse, it doesn’t leave you the time to do it. That’s why I was disappointed in my MP. We can’t all be politicians, after all.

Just skim read, I really don't understand how it is different,. We are all immigrants, here by choice. Immigration rules change all the time. I am sure the rules will change for non eu residents at some stage as well.

Nothing we know of works better than a democracy.

I'd be happy to give sortition a try.

We are all immigrants, here by choice.

I don’t understand this?

I'd be happy to give sortition a try.

Can’t agree with you there I’m afraid!

@MrsAriadneOliver meaning me, as an immigrant, and EU immigrants. (excluding asylum seekers or people here not by "choice")

Oh God, 26 pages. Do I have to read all of these before I comment?

• I'll risk it.

Hell, as a NON-EU immigrant, I had to pay around £1000 to apply. That wasn't even a guarantee of getting the LTR. I WISH mine had been £65 and via an app rather than being a massive application form and interview.*

Yes please read the thread.

Every single time