Abortion limits lowered part 2

[CosmicCanary]

I messed up the last one.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3458517-To-think-late-term-abortion-rules-may-need-tightening-up

The limits should not be lowered in my view.
I am pro choice to the point where it is the womans choice as long as her body is required.

@MsLucy no worries, no offense taken. I don't think she was sick. I think the abortion was horrific but I do not blame her, now knowing her age and reason for doing it. I do however blame your system for not getting the abortion done immediately instead of dragging it on for 5 weeks and leaving it for the 20th week that is horrifc. Why on earth did it take 5 whole weeks. That is actually insane and horrible treatment.

Personally against abortions after 12 weeks (ideally before 9 weeks while it's still an embryo) unless there's a medical reason, e.g. Severe genetic mutation of the fetus or if the mother has a life threatening situation. Can't help but see a baby killed after this period, the closer the due date the worse it is imo. I don't personally condone abortions at 14 weeks, but I especially do not condone it at 19 weeks. Jesus christ.

Nightwatch, I agree. I will defend to the end a woman's right to have an abortion for any reason up to the legal limits, or to term for medical reasons (which should definitely include the mother's mental health. No woman should have to kill herself because she cannot have an abortion. Any existing children need their mum).

I will defend to the end all women who decide abortion is right for them within these parameters. I hate that women's actions are described as horrific when they have acted simply within the services available to them.

But I can't get my head around terminating a healthy foetus after a point where it will most likely survive and be healthy if it is born.

Surely women should be able to have the baby via c section and never see it and the baby be fostered pending adoption?

Maybe it is a failing of adoption law that in these circumstances, a child's right to have details of its biological mother, is given precedence over the mother's right to walk away? Maybe that needs to change.

I have no answers. I just feel that abortion to term for no reason is morally wrong.

Thanks but truth is I did not post for sympathy.

I posted to show why I am pro choice.

Truth is had I been 34 weeks which is 10 weeks after the legal limit I would still have chosen termination.
I was stuck in a grooming and abusive relationship. I knew it but I was trapped.

My parents are good people but I was a bad daughter. I stayed out. I disobyed. I wore short skirts.
I was 20 when I got out, 14 when it started and he was 21.

I never had choice over my body and even when I legally did the process was so degrading so dehumanizing I put it off till I was 12 weeks. Then because it needed 2 Drs they dragged thier feet.

I am pro choice because no girl or woman should ever feel like their body is owned by another person.

Offs is this still going. The massive majority of people in the United Kingdom want the limit lowered but mumsnet is really not the best place to discuss it due to the memberbase.

MamaDame apologies again. I honestly thought you meant Cosmic's actions were horrific. And though I have disagrees with her on many things over several threads, I would still defend her actions.

I agree that making a young girl wait all that time is horrific though.

This is obviously such an emotive topic.

The thought of terminating a healthy foetus at 35+ weeks makes me extremely uncomfortable and sad and many other negative emotions... but then I need never have to do it. That doesn’t give me the right to think other women shouldn’t be allowed to make this decision.
And there will always be circumstances where it may be necessary... an incredibly difficult and not taken lightly decisions... but necessary nonetheless.

Just
RTFT or dont bother posting.

Cosmic staying out, disobeying and wearing short skirts don't make you a bad daughter.

None of the situation was your fault at all. None of it. It takes amazing strength to get out of a situation like that, and you did.

The process should never be dehumanizing or degrading. It is a medical procedure like any other and you deserved to be treated with respect.

I hope you have a lovely life now

Current English law is about right - in geeneral 24 weeks (most people do it much earlier) and any time for serious disabilities but again m ost peopel do it much earlier. If you think life begins at conception there is no moral difference between 1 week and 39 weeks gestation is irrelevant. If you think babies become human at 24 weeks then that's your positoin etc etc. We will never all agree on this.

I know that Lucy but society back than and now tells girls the way they act and dress is the problem.

I appreciate your post and believe you are genuine

I have had a few years of therapy so now at 41 I can look back at my 16 and 19 year old self and see I was not only abused I was failed by the "system".

Pro choice for me is not about a "meh kill a baby no matter what" stance. It is about being that girl or woman. Knowing I was trapped either way and hiding my head hoping it was not true. I had no way out. I was being abused I did not want my child yo go through the same. I did not want me stuck even more than I was!

Its a shit show tbh but my story is not the first and not the last.

Cosmic, thanks and yes I am genuine. We might not have agreed about everything (understatement ) but I would always always defend your actions and support you.

You are right, you were failed and abused by the system as well as the perpetrators.

I totally understand why you feel the way you do, and maybe the limit does need to be raised for exceptional circumstances?

I am so glad you got out and made a life for yourself. That strength is pretty awesome

I totally understand why you feel the way you do, and maybe the limit does need to be raised for exceptional circumstances?

That option already exsists sort of.
Being pro choice does not mean I am fighting for full term abotions to be the legal limit. What I am saying is pro choice means you look at the woman. You help and support her. You accept her choice if it is abortion late on but truth is if women have kindness and good support they will feel stronger and more able to cope.

Ahhh just finished a long shift and pleased to see a continuation. I'm on another long shift tomorrow so won't be around for long. However there's one thing I want to clear up. The abortion limit of 24 weeks is not set due to viability, it's set at 24 weeks because we know the neural pathways are not sufficiently developed for a foetus to feel pain up to 24 weeks. The research is a bit more shaky beyond 24 weeks which is why even though my person view is as early as possible, as late as necessary, for any reason I don't actively campaign for the limit to be removed. I do not believe in causing a living object pain, and although the foetus is dependant on the mother until it is born and the mothers rights should trump the unborn foetus.

I get slightly uncomfortable thinking of a living creature ending it's days in severe pain. However if there was a way terminations could occur up to term without causing severe pain and/or suffering to a foetus then I would support it in a heart beat. And I guess this is where my own "extreme" view becomes more grey instead of being black and white, though if a woman really did feel the need to terminate knowing the facts then she must be pretty desperate and I would put my own feelings to one side and support her anyway. Not my body, not my choice.

Well I definitely agree that more women need support and kindness.

And the current system is pretty shit at looking at the reasons why women have to abort and helping them out of it. There needs to be holistic support for women which meets their needs, addresses their vulnerabilities and situations they are in, of which the pregnancy is often only one part.

I feel for all women in terrible situations. It is clear that current systems are just not working to meet women's needs. And as we make up half the population, that is a disgrace. Especially in one of the richest countries in the world.

Of course it is a disgrace.

We are in living in a world where woman is a feeling yet we are still enslaved by our reproductive organs.

My story is shit but there are worse out there. I do not want the legal limit increased. I want people to listen to women like me and do what is right.
Trust women.

I agree with all of that, Cosmic. Totally.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6484349/amp/Number-abortions-UK-rises-10-year-high.html

I'm quite surprised one in five pregnancies ends in abortion.

They article says because benefits changes of child tax credit not paying for the 3rd child more woman are having abortions in their 30s. As they can't afford them.

Just want to say sorry to Lucy

I do not agree with her on everything but I was mean for no other reason than being mean. I am very sorty

I came onto this thread feeling very sure that I was right. I'm still pretty horrified by the idea of a termination at term but the prospect of someone in Cosmo's situation having to have a child and then either keep the baby or live with the knowledge that a baby of hers is out there somewhere has made me question whether my instincts are right. I think other posters may be right that I am struggling, because of my own experiences of trying to have a baby, to put myself in the position of someone who really does not want one. I don't know whether my views have really changed or not but I think everyone who has responded to me on this thread (especially @Cosmo deserves to know that they've made me question myself.

,User
I was pro life. I dont hate or think pro lifers are bad people.

I just think unless you have been there you have no idea what it is like to have no choice. The way i see it all women dhoulx have a choice. My morals and my wants do not mean I get a say in how blood is pumped round your body. I get no say in your coffee intake. Or how fat you get.
I have no say in your need to piss.

I have no say in how your birth your child.

Cosmic, thanks for the apology, but it is honestly fine. It is an emotive subject. No hard feelings at all

There are methods for third trimester abortion that don't involve giving birth.
These could be done instead.
People aren't being ignorant. They might force you to give birth here but they don't have to.

What methods are those itsbetterthanabox ?

@PixieCutRegret
intact dilation and evacuation

What does intact dilation and evacuation consist of in laymens terms?