Abortion limits lowered part 2

[CosmicCanary]

I messed up the last one.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3458517-To-think-late-term-abortion-rules-may-need-tightening-up

The limits should not be lowered in my view.
I am pro choice to the point where it is the womans choice as long as her body is required.

@irnbruforlife
You could google yourself.
Wiki describes as
A late-term surgical abortion procedure, involving (in order) dilation of the cervix, removal of the fetus from the uterus to the shoulders, and emptying of the fetal cranium to allow for easier passage of the head through the cervix and vagina.

Oh my goodness, that sounds barbaric. I fee quite sick.

Sorry, I can't get on board with that. Why should the woman have the right to decide what happens to a baby once it's body is partially delivered? Disgusting.

Imagine the distress a term baby would be in during a procedure like that I fully support a woman's choice up to the legal abortion limit but not that.

@PixieCutRegret
The foetus is under anaesthetic.
It is safer and better for the mother than forcing her to have a labour.

Well that makes it ok then, why not just drain a newborn's head of it's fluid if the mother no longer wants it. If the majority of the baby has been delivered, then it is a person in it's own right.

Pixie the baby hasn't been delivered. It has never left the womb.

Why is it barbaric to say to a woman who is 30 odd weeks pregnant, ok if you don't want to be pregnant any more we can induce you or you can have a c section, we can provide anaesthetic, but it is absolutely fine to partially deliver a baby who could survive outside of it's mother's body and drain it's head of it's fluid because it is aneathatised.

@PixieCutRegret
That's not abortion.
A foetus is not an independent human being.

Why is the foetus under anaesetic? It's just a foetus. It's not a real person. bullshit. I think that procedure is fucking disgusting and no womans right to bodily autonomy would justify doing that to a healthy child. Tbh, I struggle to justify that procedure for disabled babies. I Thank God there isn't a prenatal test for autism.

Have I misread something? It's body is partially delivered?

@PixieCutRegret
A c section is major abdominal surgery and no woman should be forced to give birth especially induction.
At one point should women be forced to induce or c section? 26 weeks? So we then have to fight to keep the foetus alive? That seems ridiculous.

@irnbruforlife
Because the anaesthetic the woman has is passed onto the foetus. That's just how it works.

Fucking hell. Advocating partial delivery of a healthy baby, the sucking it’s head dry before crushing and removing? Christ, and people are trying to argue that this is anything but an extreme view?

I want to be sick- agree with pp, if it's 'just a foetus' why does it need anaesthetic? Just bore into the skull while being removed... Disgusting.

It's not used very much obviously but is a preferred procedure by some doctors as it is safer. I'd rather they do a safer procedure even if others would prefer they did a procedure deemed less 'gross'

Itsbetterthanabox well that late in the day the baby has got to come out one way or another, the procedure you suggests hardly sounds like a walk in the park for the woman either to be honest. Beyond the 24 week abortion limit, you have a viable foetus and a woman. Why should the baby have to die late in pregnancy in an atrocious way just so the woman can have a slightly less invasive procedure? For any reason?

@PixieCutRegret
No labour pains, no major abdominal surgery. Safer and less likely to have lasting damage to her body.
I'd say that's more than just a slightly less invasive procedure.

Safer than what 'itsbetter' why not just do a csect then kill? Or does this way perpetuate that it's just a medical procedure and dehumanises the baby?

@ElfOnTheShelfAteMyJoy Exactly! This thread has really upset me and it does appear we're dehumanising. I can understand not wanting to be pregnant and all the reasons for abortion but I'm afraid I cannot be convinced that terminating a full term healthy child is ever acceptable. I've been frankly sickened and I'm horrified more people have not been. When leads me to despair.

@ElfOnTheShelfAteMyJoy
C section is major abdominal surgery and comes with many risks.
This procedure is much safer.

It weird how people think themselves being grossed out is reason to limit others bodily autonomy.

@neweternal, please don't despair. In rl, practically no one advocates or justifies late term abortions or it's procedures. In fact, most sane people are sickened. When the head of the midwifery union? Tried to push this abhorrent opinion through there was a massive backlash, from the general public and midwives alike. Funnily enough, there was no consensus taken, she just tried to push her own disgusting personal views through as the general consensus with predictable results.

It weird how people think themselves being grossed out is reason to limit others bodily autonomy.

Indeed. There was a similar kind of argument from disgust against the decriminalisation of homosexuality. It's just not very persuasive.

I mean, I find it disgusting that despite Rotherham and increased awareness of domestic abuse, and other crimes against vulnerable women, some people still think every fetus should have rights, but my disgust isn't where I focus my argument. The point isn't that I find other people's lack of compassion disgusting; the point is that late terminations are necessary.

“the point is that late terminations are necessary.”

I still haven’t seen a very convincing argument to explain why late termination is necessary compared to allowing the baby to be born alive.