To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

[FestiveNut]

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

@echt I would but it's on here and TAAT rules prohibit it. The actual thread isn't specifically about the abortion though.

All of the anti abortion crowd need to start working harder to provide better funding for disabled people, childcare, and benefits before you start taking away women's rights.

Also, sorry for not replying earlier. Baby fell asleep and I only had four hours last night so decided to join her!

For those on here who would abort to term, would you cry ‘awful! Disgraceful! Poor little mite!’ at those stories where a newborn baby is left to die?

No. I tend to think "what a sad situation" and think that there must have been some horrible circumstances that should have been picked up by antenatal services before it got to that stage.

Adoption is not the solution to this either. I would abort rather than go through an unwanted pregnancy and the period postpartum to leave the child at the mercy of adoption. Far better to abort than have another life dealing with the consequences of my actions.

Every child a wanted child. For what sort of life are we condemning the child to, if it is unwanted? Do you really think it will never know that it is unwanted?

As has been said many times on this thread, as early as possible, as late as necessary, for any or no reason. And when I say 'no reason', I mean that the woman does not have to say what her reason is - she will have one, but I have no right to know it.

And frankly, I think if our laws are to be changed they should be liberalised. We currently have the fudge that it is for medical reasons (the pregnant woman's mental health) and so it requires two doctors' signatures. Women should not need 'permission' to terminate a pregnancy. It should be on request. It is not requested lightly, and women should not be made to jump through hoops for it.

I'm pro-choice in all circumstances.

I know two women who had late abortions in their teens. Both were in extreme circumstances, both were at risk of suicide had they been forced to carry to term, one was in an extremely abusive situation with her family and both were not supported by outside agencies in a way that would have made the continuation of pregnancy a viable option for them.

I very, very much doubt there are women who just can't be bothered with being pregnant anymore - it's a difficult and traumatic procedure that no one undertakes lightly. Late abortion is complex and I believe, always linked to trauma of some sort. For those who find it abhorrent (and I understand why), I would urge you to direct your ire towards the structures in society that put women in impossible positions with little to no support physically, financially, emotionally and psychologically.

would but it's on here and TAAT rules prohibit it.

All of the anti abortion crowd need to start working harder to provide better funding for disabled people, childcare, and benefits before you start taking away women's rights

This. IME anti abortionists lose interest in the "poor tragic baby" pretty much as soon as its born.

Darkriver, I’m sure that’s true but I feel it would be easier to live with than a termination at 39 weeks.

Late term terminations are highly unusual, terminations of healthy fetuses at that stage even more so. For that reason I see no reason to adjust the laws already in place. I doubt anyone puts themselves through such a traumatic experience for fun. It must be hugely distressing.

Maybe the solution could be to induce and let doctors try to keep the baby alive, put it up for adoption if it makes it?

What do you think the survival rate and the impact of induction on a 22 week old foetus might be? Because the stats are pretty bad now for those born at 22 weeks, and it's a spontaneous delivery the majority of the time. You don't seem to have thought much about either of these, much less have any idea about the answers. These are really questions that need to at least be asked before deciding it's the more moral option for the foetus.

I’m pro choice. A woman has the right to autonomy over her own body.

Any ‘tightening up’ or lowering of the limits is an erosion of those rights, so no, personally I don’t think that should happen (even if the OP has now read an emotive thread about it )

I've read two stories of newborns being abused and murdered by violent men in the last few days.
I think a late abortion would have been preferable to that actually.
I'm sure we have all read stories of teenage girls concealing pregnancies, giving birth alone with no medical care and hiding the baby's body.
I believe access to abortion as late as necessary is a better outcome.

Why doesn't the 12 year old whose pregnancy is a result of incest, or the woman who has just discovered her husband is a paedophile, or the homeless schizophrenic alcoholic just have their labours induced and the premature baby put up for adoption? Because that's going to be a happy ending all round

Why would it have to be an abortion? Why couldn’t it be induced labour, baby taken away and adopted?
Because no one terminates a healthy baby at 39 weeks. It’s only if the baby has a condition incompatible to life and the options are abortion or live birth to be followed by a protracted painful death. You wouldn’t let an animal suffer in pain with no hope of recovery why do it to a baby.
You have to give birth if the terminations at 39 weeks it’s not a way to avoid labour or a cs.

MinecraftHolmes, what do class as an abortion and the neglect until death of a Newborn?

If a Mother decides to abort a 25 week old Fetus, should the Baby be killed in Utero, or left to die post Birth?

There's Nurses in other Countries who describe how they've had to leave Babies to die and Nurses in this country until the age of intervention was lowered.

It's in the relationships section.

Thank you @gamerwidow

Adoption is not the solution to this either. I would abort rather than go through an unwanted pregnancy and the period postpartum to leave the child at the mercy of adoption

That shouldn’t be your decision. Once the foetus is out of your body, it’s not your responsibility any more. You honestly think it’s better for a healthy 39 week foetus to be terminated than adopted?

But the baby in question is 22 weeks in gestation, some babies born then do survive.

But sometimes, surviving is all that happens. Babies born that premature usually have significant disabilities. It's rare for a very premature baby to survive with no disabilities, so some people saying that they, or someone they know, were that premature and are happy, healthy, etc, is no justification for putting limits on abortion.

Stats again! Late term abortions practically non existant.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/763174/2017-abortion-statistics-for-england-and-wales-revised.pdf

197533 abortions performed in 2017
1895 of these were for pregnancies over 22 weeks
This represents 0.1% of abortions last year.

Because no one terminates a healthy baby at 39 weeks.

People are arguing for termination to term fir any reason.

As someone who had a tfmr only a week and a half ago at 22 weeks this is hard reading.
Our little one was severely unwell and I could never have done it if he wasn't.
I choose to think that people must have a good reason to terminate that late because the thought is too horrible otherwise.

All of the anti abortion crowd need to start working harder to provide better funding for disabled people, childcare, and benefits before you start taking away women's rights

100% this. We’re not just talking about a “poor little baby” but an actual human life which will need to be cared for properly for (hopefully) many years. And honestly, that care is lacking. All those people who are anti abortion need to be lobbying for better care for the disabled, children growing up in the care system and mental health.

p.s. Monr0e you’re welcome

Yay. We got to 5 pages before the 'it's murder unless I personally agree with the circumstances' and 'keep your legs shut' comments came along.

Also, I feel like the children would be wanted if put up for adoption. I daresay a newborn with no health issues would be quite an attractive prospect to many would-be adopters.