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Original poster

To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

999 replies

FestiveNut · 23/12/2018 09:11

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

OP posts:
Trills · 23/12/2018 10:12

Whether a baby could survive at 24 weeks or not doesn't change that you'd be forcing someone to continue with 4 more months of pregnancy, and then give birth.

You wouldn't say "you can't have an abortion, but we can induce labour now and see if the baby survives".

JustABetterPlayer · 23/12/2018 10:13

Available up to full term?? I’m not an advocate of murdering unborn children without compelling reasons myself Hmm

PurpleDaisies · 23/12/2018 10:13

You wouldn't say "you can't have an abortion, but we can induce labour now and see if the baby survives".

Why not?

icannotremember · 23/12/2018 10:13

For those saying that abortion should be available up to term, would you really terminate a pregnancy at 39 weeks?
I wouldn't but I would want the option to be open to me and other women.

And what should happen if between a woman booking and attending the termination appointment, she goes in to labour and the baby is born?
Well what do you think? The baby now exists. It can't be aborted. It can be raised by it's mother or adopted. Really, what other answers were you expecting?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 23/12/2018 10:14

I don’t know if I would ever feel that it was absolutely necessary for me to have a termination at 38 weeks

As I don’t claim to know how other women may feel

But I do believe I and all other women have that right to have autonomy over our own bodies

LadyLance · 23/12/2018 10:14

BPAS also have some useful reading about the reasons women have post 20 week abortions. I'm on my phone and in a rush or I would link, but a lot of people who ask for this have had a massive change in circumstances during the pregnancy (e.g. Homelessness, relationship breakdown). Sometimes they feel it's a choice between their living children and the foetus.

There's also a tiny number of often very young women (i.e. Teenagers) who haven't realised they are pregnant sooner e.g. Due to an erratic menstrual cycle or continuing to bleed and not really knowing the symptoms of pregnancy.

It is absolutely not people being lazy or suddenly at 20 weeks deciding they don't want a child after all. It's also a tiny number of women doing this for non medical reasons. It is worth noting this number has remained steady while the 14-20 week number is dropping.

These women in difficult circumstances deserve our compassion and not out judgement, which is why I believe as early as possible, as late as necessary.

I do however think there is a lot of stigma in the UK about giving a baby up at birth. Perhaps if you are against later abortions trying to reduce this would help?

TwistedStitch · 23/12/2018 10:15

Studies have been done on the very small amount of women presenting for termination after 20 weeks for so called social reasons- there was a document with case studies but I can't find it now. But they weren't women who just sat around twiddling their thumbs because they thought a late abortion sounded like fun. Some were fleeing DV, in refuges, homeless hostels, already had children in care, teenagers who were on the pill and had no idea they were even pregnant. So often very vulnerable women with other struggles, chaotic backgrounds or MH problems. Hearing about desperate and distressed women being sent away to continue pregnancies they can't cope with at 24+1 weeks is bad enough, so no I don't agree that should be happening any earlier.

sayitwithcake · 23/12/2018 10:16

For those on here who would abort to term, would you cry ‘awful! Disgraceful! Poor little mite!’ at those stories where a newborn baby is left to die? If so, can you tell me what the difference is between a baby at term and a newborn?

C8H10N4O2 · 23/12/2018 10:17

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier

Cite? I find its always worth checking the original sources of "very sad stories" on this subject.

A fraction of a percentage of abortions are carried out after 22 weeks. Reasons can be late diagnosed but significant abnormality, conditions which will mean the baby is not viable or situations where a vulnerable woman or child has late diagnosis of a high risk pregnancy (lets not forget, pregnancies arising from abuse can be picked up very late).

Abortion on grounds of sex is already illegal in this country so not sure what rules would need "tightening up"

As early as possible, as late as necessary.

Orlande · 23/12/2018 10:18

KnockMeDown - can you imagine what kind of dire situation you would have to be in to need an abortion at 39 weeks? Of course I would never want to be in that situation, but if I was I would want access to safe, legal abortion.

Meganc559 · 23/12/2018 10:18

I m pro life so I think this is a huge problem, I had my baby 2 months ago and checked how much he grew every week on an app. At week 8 they pretty much look like a tiny baby and by week 20 ypu can usually feel flutters! How could ypu possibly abort a baby! A viable life'!

If you can't handle it don't gwt pregnant, scared of getting pregnant? Don't have sex!!

C8H10N4O2 · 23/12/2018 10:19

Don't have sex!!

Such excellent advice to those who are raped and abused - its all their own fault.

PurpleDaisies · 23/12/2018 10:19

KnockMeDown - can you imagine what kind of dire situation you would have to be in to need an abortion at 39 weeks?

Why would it have to be an abortion? Why couldn’t it be induced labour, baby taken away and adopted?

CaptainBrickbeard · 23/12/2018 10:19

I always wonder when this thread comes up how likely it is that the medical staff would be found to perform late term abortions of healthy babies if the demand was there. I find it very unlikely that many women would choose a late abortion but also think a significant number of doctors and nurses might decline to carry them out. I don’t think we will ever be in a situation where is happening except in very desperate and difficult circumstances.

echt · 23/12/2018 10:19

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier
Would you care to share this?

www.bpas.org/media/1202/second_trimester_abortions__ingham.pdf

Fucking goady thread. Oh, and the OP has not come back. Hmm

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 23/12/2018 10:20

I don’t know if I would ever feel that it was absolutely necessary for me to have a termination at 38 weeks

^ I agree

WithAllIntenseAndPurposes · 23/12/2018 10:21

As much as I would feel uncomfortable and would never want to do it myself I 100% agree with the autonomy of the woman making the choice to terminate. Whenever and for whatever reason. The minute we start putting conditions on that is when we start viewing women merely as vessels to procreate

pointythings · 23/12/2018 10:23

For those on here who would abort to term, would you cry ‘awful! Disgraceful! Poor little mite!’ at those stories where a newborn baby is left to die?

No, I would expect to find that the mother in that case was a very vulnerable and desperate woman who deserved support and treatment, not condemnation.

I'm with the 'as early as possible, as late as necessary' camp. Anything else is forced birth. Look at what's happening in parts of South America - women are being jailed for miscarriages and stillbirths. Is that where we want to go?

recklessruby · 23/12/2018 10:25

Normally I would think it's none of my business what someone else chooses to do with her body but I can't imagine abortions up to birth.
My ds was premature (much wanted and given all the best medical care going) and he didn't just look like a real baby. He was a real baby, cried, felt pain, made facial expressions etc. At 32 weeks.
I think that's too late. That's a life that lived independently and grew up to adulthood.
I fail to see how aborting at this stage isn't murder. If I had killed my new born baby I would have been charged with murder.
Abortion is best before 24 weeks.

NotACleverName · 23/12/2018 10:26

If you have to say "I'm pro-choice, but" you're not as pro-choice as you think you are.

What would you think of a mother who, for no reason, decides she no longer wants to parent her one day old baby? Her one week old, one month, one year, ten years? Why is that any different?

Because that one day/one week/whatever is an autonomous being, not reliant on someone else's body to keep them alive. That's a shit attempt at a "gotcha" if I ever saw one.

Those who say her body, her choice, well it's not just her body any more, another body is involved, whose rights and needs also should be considered.

A foetus does not have rights.

Original poster
FestiveNut · 23/12/2018 10:27

See, I get the bodily choice thing. And I hated being pregnant. Giving birth was no picnic either. But the baby in question is 22 weeks in gestation, some babies born then do survive. And, no matter how rare the situation is, the woman in question did allow the fetus to continue to grow, out of indecision as far as the author could tell. And surely they can feel pain at that point? It does seem like murder and I'm struggling to get around it. Maybe the solution could be to induce and let doctors try to keep the baby alive, put it up for adoption if it makes it? They'd have to give birth anyway at that point. I struggle to see how a less than ideal start at life is better for the baby than being killed in the womb. Can't believe in writing this BTW, it's a total 180 from my previous standpoint.

OP posts:
DustyMaiden · 23/12/2018 10:27

I cannot think of any reason to allow abortion at 39 weeks. Surely adoption would be easier on the mother’s mental health. The baby has to be born one way or another. Dead or alive.

EwItsAHooman · 23/12/2018 10:28

I m pro life so I think this is a huge problem, I had my baby 2 months ago and checked how much he grew every week on an app. At week 8 they pretty much look like a tiny baby and by week 20 ypu can usually feel flutters! How could ypu possibly abort a baby! A viable life'!

Apologies if the following is upsetting for anyone, it's not intended to be hurtful Flowers

I've held a four month old foetus, they're more or less fully formed but they're in no way viable and they don't look anything like a 'baby'. They're not in proportion, their skin is transparent, they don't have those little finishing details like eyelashes. You know it couldn't survive without a body to live in.

No woman should be forced to provide that body.

If you can't handle it don't gwt pregnant, scared of getting pregnant? Don't have sex!!

Pregnancy is not a punishment for daring to have sex and abstinence is not a punishment for not wanting to have a baby.

Woman should have full ownership of their own bodies and their own sexuality. They should have access to free and effective contraception choices and they should have access to free, safe terminations when that contraception fails.

darkriver198868 · 23/12/2018 10:29

To all those saying just have the child adopted. The painful effects of adoption don't just stop once the child is adopted it stays with you forever. Whether you consent or not.

Witchend · 23/12/2018 10:29

Medical reasons is too wide too.
My dd was born with one hand. Not ideal, but not a major disability.
We know people who found out at scans and were offered abortions, and yes, some of them were later than 24 weeks. Note that they were offered, not requested.
Some people were even put under pressure to have one. They were told that a missing hand implied almost certainly there were further anomalies, when the truth is it's less than 1% have further problems, and even some of them are minor.