Page 30 | To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

FestiveNut · 2018-12-23T09:11:46+00:00

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation? I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that. Should the threshold be lowered?

Auramigraine · 24/12/2018 21:21

Cardsforkittens if a woman chose to have a termination at term though wouldn’t she have to go through a forced birth anyway? I wouldn’t know much but from what I know a surgical termination is not offered at such a late stage so wouldn’t she need to go through labour and delivery anyways? Does it matter if the baby was stillborn or whisked away alive straight after birth never to be seen again if she chooses. Genuine question by the way, I’m interested in people’s
opinions...

WinterfellWench · 24/12/2018 21:24

@dustymaiden

Why not wait until the baby is a week old, that’s when you really know what you have let yourself in for.

They may as well. Terminating it then wouldn't be much different to doing it at full term/40 weeks whilst still in the uterus... (Like some people claim they would happily do if they no longer wished to be pregnant!)

You couldn't make this shit up!

WinterfellWench · 24/12/2018 21:26

@PineapplePower

Srsly if I was conspiratorially minded, I’d think this was a pro-lifer who wanted to make pro-choice feminists look bad.

Makes you wonder doesn't it? Because no way in HELL does anyone in real life, think it's OK to abort a baby at full term. I call bs.

Orlande · 24/12/2018 21:27

I truly believe that if a tiny number of women choose to go through a 3rd trimester abortion they will have a good reason to do so (and I don't need to know or judge their reasons) - and they should have access to safe, legal abortion.

KonekoBasu · 24/12/2018 21:34

"Late abortions are rare precisely because of the law in place."

Given that the vast majority are before 12 weeks, I really doubt that. Clearly most women know what they want to do and get it over with as soon as possible, I don't think any change in the law would make thousands of women suddenly indecisive.

thehorseandhisboy · 24/12/2018 21:34

The key issue about women being lawfully permitted to terminate a pregnancy at any stage is about bodily autonomy. That isn't what the law permits in the UK at the moment, but it is the logical conclusion of the belief in 'as early as possible, as late as necessary'.

My general belief is that decisions about a pregnancy should lie with the woman who is pregnant, in discussion with her doctor. Other people might not like her choices or agree with them, but they are hers to make.

PineapplePower · 24/12/2018 21:35

they should have access to safe, legal abortion

It’s so, so rare that do we even know it is safe? While abortions are generally considered safer than childbirth, I’m not sure how a third-trimester abortion could be made safer? You are basically doing an induction of a dead fetus, kind of like stillbirth. At that point, it’s just as dangerous and physically/emotionally difficult as childbirth, so what’s the point?

MySkirtHasPockets · 24/12/2018 21:37

I truly believe that if a tiny number of women choose to go through a 3rd trimester abortion they will have a good reason to do so (and I don't need to know or judge their reasons) - and they should have access to safe, legal abortion.

This.

How ridiculous that people can't get their heads around it so have to come up with this idea that people who support a woman's right to choose are actually pro lifers trying to make pro choice people look bad. Really? I mean, really??

Orlande · 24/12/2018 21:37

It's safer than a DIY or back street abortion.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 24/12/2018 21:38

akes you wonder doesn't it? Because no way in HELL does anyone in real life, think it's OK to abort a baby at full term. I call bs

This is getting silly

Cards obviously thinks that it should be an option, she has said such and now you are virtually caloing her a liar

If some people believe there should be no abortion at any stage there must surely be people that believe that there should be abortion at any stage

PineapplePower · 24/12/2018 21:41

It's safer than a DIY or back street abortion

Ridiculous. No one is legally allowed to terminate for non-medical reasons past 24 weeks and here you are suggesting that back alley abortions will come back into vogue or are currently a thing.

CardsforKittens · 24/12/2018 21:47

I've been asked a few questions above, and other posters have given answers that were better and more articulate than what I was struggling to compose. Thank you, articulate people! And yes, I'm a real person who really believes that women's bodily autonomy is paramount.

ElonMask · 24/12/2018 21:47

The key issue about women being lawfully permitted to terminate a pregnancy at any stage is about bodily autonomy.

Bullshit. women don't terminate the pregnancy themselves no one is denying them control over their own body. Insisting that someone else does something to your body does not equal bodily autonomy.

PineapplePower · 24/12/2018 21:48

actually pro lifers trying to make pro choice people look bad

I assume this is aimed at me. I said this because pro-lifers always use graphic imagery of “babies getting skulls crushed and being dismembered” and trying to explain that this is what abortion is.

Which is pure BS because those are usually much needed late-term abortions of medically compromised fetuses.

Pro-lifers like to constantly misrepresent the reality of abortion, and that’s why I thought that.

moredoll · 24/12/2018 21:51

Srsly if I was conspiratorially minded, I’d think this was a pro-lifer who wanted to make pro-choice feminists look bad.

Makes you wonder doesn't it? Because no way in HELL does anyone in real life, think it's OK to abort a baby at full term. I call bs.

Yep., me too

moredoll · 24/12/2018 21:52

As a pp said, what the hell do you THINK it is if it's not a baby?

It's. a. foetus.

PineapplePower · 24/12/2018 21:54

Orlande

The problem is we are talking theoretically. You don’t know that abortion can be safe (or, at least, safer than childbirth) at 39 weeks; a woman would have to go through medically induced labor of a stillborn child. This makes no sense to me at all. It would be just as traumatizing and physically difficult as childbirth itself. What is the point of all that? No one has answered that.

To be clear, I’m a pro-choice feminist. I just don’t understand this stance.

Auramigraine · 24/12/2018 21:57

I don’t feel my questions was answered cardsforkittens, not meaning to be a pain but genuinely interested to know if the birth they would go through either way at teen why it would matter if baby was born alive or stillborn?

Auramigraine · 24/12/2018 21:57

Term* stupid autocorrect

FruitCider · 24/12/2018 21:58

No. As late as necessary, as early as possible. Not my body, not my say. Only a woman desperate enough to seek a termination close to viability will know her true reasons, and in my eyes they are always good enough. I don't want to live in a society where we have children by chance not choice, the woman and her needs need to come first.

In prisons we have a lot of women arriving who are told they are pregnant once they have entered prison. Many of these will go on to have terminations for a huge variety of reasons. Who am I to tell them their reasons are not "good enough"?

moredoll · 24/12/2018 22:01

I think it's ok to terminate a pregnancy at term if the woman no longer wishes to be pregnant.

I don't believe you. No-one in real life thinks this.

Agree, it's not true. If somebody went to term with an unwanted pregnancy they would give the baby up for adoption.

The hard of thinking pro-lifers are out in force on this thread.

CardsforKittens · 24/12/2018 22:04

I don’t feel my questions was answered cardsforkittens, not meaning to be a pain but genuinely interested to know if the birth they would go through either way at teen why it would matter if baby was born alive or stillborn?

A termination isn't a live birth or a stillbirth. So neither of those outcomes would be a termination. You seem to be asking whether a woman who wants a termination couldn't just give birth to a live baby instead. The answer is: that isn't a termination of pregnancy.

PurpleDaisies · 24/12/2018 22:07

The answer is: that isn't a termination of pregnancy.
That’s not an answer. Bodily autonomy-foetus is removed from woman’s body. Why does that also extend to whether the foetus’ heart is stopped before that happens? No need for her to have any involvement with it afterwards.

PineapplePower · 24/12/2018 22:09

You seem to be asking whether a woman who wants a termination couldn't just give birth to a live baby instead

Ummmm ..... how do you think a termination would be performed at this stage?

MsLucyLastic · 24/12/2018 22:09

Nobody is going to think 'I'll try being pregnant, do 8 months and get bored of the idea', which leaves me back at the point of what trauma must a woman be experiencing

Erm, yes...that is precisely what some women would like to do. I really do feel that some of the posters who believe in "as late as necessary for any reason or none" are naive. Both in their view that women will never request a late term abortion for "fun" - yes some will. Very few but they exist. But also that a foetus at 38 weeks isn't a baby. The medical term for a period is menstruation - there is no doubt that the two are not the same. Using semantics as a means of justifying something which is so distasteful to 94% of society, is really rather bizarre.

If a child was born and remained attached via the umbilical cord to the placenta within its mother's body, then surely (according the logic of those who argue that being joined to the mother means the child isn't a baby) it shouldn't be murder to end the life of the child at that point? It is still joined to the mother and receiving oxygen and nutrients via the placenta, after all, therefore is a part of her body. Therefore still a foetus.

And if the child isn't a foetus at this stage, why not? If it hasn't taken its first breath, it isn't independent of its mother. So surely terminating between it leaving the mother's body and the child taking its first breath is ok?

I am totally in favour of the legalisation of abortion up to 24 weeks for any reason, and think it should be a medical issue rather than legal. Beyond the point of viability, then I honestly do think a woman's rights, in non-medical cases, should also be considered in tandem with her and society's responsibilities towards the foetus.

There should be no stigma at releasing a child for adoption. Several.of my family members have adopted babies soon after their birth and they are loved and wanted.

There should be better social, financial, psychological and practical support for women who feel unable to have a child for these reasons. And that support should be for as long as the mother needs them.

Those who argue that women may not have been allowed to have an abortion earlier, due to their partner being abusive, does it not occur that another form of abuse would be for a partner to force the woman to abort at 39 weeks? What would that do to a woman's mental health?

A woman or partner, in a cycle of addiction, would have the financial incentive of maternity allowance kicking in, which may incentivise them to avoid terminating earlier.

I don't have all the answers, but I am fairly certain that "abort to term for any reason or none" is not a great answer either.