To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

[FestiveNut]

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

When you deny a woman's basic right to bodily autonomy after 12 weeks then of course you are saying that the foetus matters more. Exemptions for cancer aside (how generous of you) what about the mother's MH? Right not to be forced to go through pregnancy and childbirth? You are treating a woman as an enforced surrogate, it's barbaric.

AngeloMysterioso

'Advances in foetal medicine should not result in women’s right to bodily autonomy being removed.

As early as possible, as late as necessary.'

^ THIS.

The law in Denmark agrees with mine and I'm thankful for it

Imagine being thankful for the subjugation of women. How odd.

@TwistedStitch I think killing a fetus that late is also barbaric. The pregnancy is the lesser evil in my opinion.

A quick google suggests that 2nd trimester abortions are actually available in Denmark for a whole host of reasons.

@TwistedStitch in practice it is insanely hard to get approved for an abortion post 12 weeks even if you have a good reason. Most are rejected. So while it may appear to be lenient in practice it is not.

in practice it is insanely hard to get approved for an abortion post 12 weeks even if you have a good reason

And this is the system you are 'thankful' for?

@TwistedStitch Did I make myself unclear? Yes. Yes it is.

This is basically the same question as the one about the death penalty: if one innocent person is executed, are you OK with that? If one woman forced to give birth against her will dies of complications, are you OK with that? If the answer is yes, you're heartless. Wrap yourself up comfortably in 'oh, it will be very rare' as much as you want, but that is the scenario you are supporting.

But this argument can go the other way as well. If the abortion limit is extended to full term (as many on this thread have suggested) and even one healthy full term baby is aborted, are you ok with it? Plenty of people saying ‘oh, it would never happen/it’s so rare’ about that too.

No just wanted to double check that you were celebrating a system that denies abortions to women who you acknowledge have good reasons for one. You've now made yourself very clear, thanks.

Most are rejected. So while it may appear to be lenient in practice it is not

Oh thank goodness vulnerable women or rape victims have to work hard to access an abortion. I mean obviously that’s a fucking wonderful system

As early as possible and as late as necessary.

Personally I don't like the idea of abortion especially later ones and in an ideal world it would be great if it didn't have to happen. However we aren't in an ideal world and sometimes we have to choose something awful because the alternative is worse. It's not an easy decision for anyone to have an abortion. Nobody has one for fun. It's painful, embarrassing. You can get complications like anaemia, haemorrhage.

Babies can survive at 24 weeks or even earlier but that doesn't mean it should be illegal to abort a baby at that stage. Do you honestly think that women being forced to birth their babies at 24 weeks and then give them up for adoption is a viable alternative to abortion at 24 weeks? It's not that simple. For a start I don't think people are queuing up to adopt babies with cerebral palsy, chronic lung disease, hydrocephalus and global development delay

We have to allow abortions at any stage. Anything else is barbaric. Forced birth is horrific for the mum, the baby, the mum's older dc if she has them.

I'm with the as early as possible as late as necessary camp.

I have seen nothing to suggest personhood of fetuses and restrictions on abortion cause misery for women and their families. There's nothing to be gained by restricting abortion access.

Not RTFT yet but I worked at a womens refuge and one of my service users had an abortion at later than 20 weeks for non-medical reasons. She wasn't aware she was pregnant as she had irregular periods die to being underweight. And her ex"D"P was in jail and VERY abusive and dangerous. To have the baby would have tied her to him forever. In an ideal world she wouldn't have needed to terminate (or at least not as late) but I couldn't judge her at all and for cases like hers I think we need the limit to remain the same. Thank fuck she didn't find out any later.

Fucking hell in Denmark after 12 weeks women have to go in front of a panel of 4 experts who must unanimously agree she can have a termination, even in cases of rape and significant risk to the mother's physical and mental health. Are these the cases you are talking about that hardly ever get approved? Imagine being so desperate that you beg strangers to let you have basic rights over your body and then get turned down, and imagine other women thinking this is a good thing. Just urghh. On the plus side it appears surveys show the majority of Danes support easier access to abortion beyond 12 weeks.

The fetus will come out one way or another. It may be traumatic for the mother to give birth but it is far more barbaric the way the fetus is killed and treated after its death. When it gets to the point where you have to crush the skull in order to be able to extract it, maybe it's time to reconsider the morality of what you're doing.

It may be traumatic for the mother to give birth but it is far more barbaric the way the fetus is killed and treated after its death

Yeah who gives a fuck about a woman eh? I mean she’s just a vessel . Doesn’t matter if her physical or mental health is at risk, as long as some pontificating horror can smug pat themselves on the back as to just how much better their morals are.

Ghastly

@Hellonheels sorry for the delay in response, I was catching up with the rest of the thread.

1. I already came to the conclusion that I must not be entirely pro choice in a previous comment, hence why I asked you read the full thread.
2. I'm not against women's bodily autonomy. I think it's very important. I just don't think it trumps the life of a fully formed infant.

It may be traumatic for the mother to give birth but it is far more barbaric the way the fetus is killed and treated after its death

Mine was 19 weeks. I was raped but my trauma matrers not....

CosmicCanary

How a foetus is treated AFTER it's death is more barbaric than how a live woman is treated? So now dead foetuses matter more than women too.

Absolutely. I think the limit needs lowering

^This

CosmicCanary I’m sorry you went through that, and so glad that we don’t live in a country that forces women to give birth to their rapist’s child. We need to be really careful about what giving up any abortion rights could lead to.

The argument is simply that I cannot or do not want to accept the physical reality of my situation (talking about abortion to term here), and i demand that a technically advanced and to many, morally objectionable operation be available to me whenever and for whatever reason I want. Wtf has this got to do with bodily autonomy at 30+ weeks ??

I'll ask again, would you personally be willing to perform the injection of poison into a 38 week old babies heart ? Because if not then you have absolutely no right to demand that someone else does. And also since that can be tricky, would it not be better just kill it as soon as it comes out ? What is the difference ?

cosmiccanary