To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

[FestiveNut]

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

I defend that right whether or not

And thats the point.

Not my choice not my right.

I do think that is murder

I’d consider it murder if the state denied an abortion and the woman died during childbirth.

I'm back!

@hellonheels RTFT please.

@TwistedStitch it's not the 12 weeks per se and personally I'd prefer the abortion to happen before the embryo becomes a fetus I.e.

Advances in foetal medicine should not result in women’s right to bodily autonomy being removed.

As early as possible, as late as necessary.

But you just said that you think 12 weeks should be the cut off, after which time a woman should be made to have the baby and give it up for adoption if necessary. So I'll ask the same question I asked the other poster who also gave 12 weeks as a cut off- if a woman doesn't discover she is pregnant in time to get an appointment until 12+1 you'd have her sent away and told tough luck too late? You'd force a woman who sought out an abortion as quickly as she could to go through a pregnancy that she didn't feel able to cope with and the trauma of giving up a baby because she hit 12 weeks, but you can't explain why 12 weeks specifically?

Thought provoking thread.
I can see reasons for and against.

Was pretty shocked reading some comments Ann Furedi (BPAS Chief Exec) made about abortion eg she equates it to birth control, and she supports sex selective abortion, where it is often females who are aborted.

I have read the thread. Why are you so against women's bodily autonomy?

@TwistedStitch Well if she doesn't discover being pregnant for more than 12 weeks then too bad? It's not just about her anymore.

I said 12 because there needs to be a cut off and I think 12 weeks is reasonable when I in fact think it's hard to accept any abortion that is of a fetus and not an embryo. So I added 3 weeks more than what I'm comfortable to support.

This is all my opinion and I have no way of dictating how Brits should do it, but that is the law in Denmark and I accept it. Were they going to suggest 14 or 16 weeks I'd vote no and rally against it.
Particularly because you can find out the sex of the baby at 14 weeks and I am very much against abortions based on gender.

"Personally I think 12 weeks for any reason, up to 18 weeks in exemption circumstances eg severe mental health and beyond 18 only for disability"

I like the idea that a woman with severe mental health issues after 18 weeks should forced to continue, presumably sectioned, possibly shackled, on suicide watch etc.

I also like the idea that after 18 weeks it's only allowed for disabiltiy of the baby, not for trivial reasons like, oh I don't know, the mother is going to die.

Interestingly the idea that you can abort after a certain amount of time for disability which can be a bit tenuous > in the eye of the beholder > is questioned by many disability rights activists. Not talking about severe disabiltiy or incompatible with life, but things that people can and do live with... Their lives are seen as less valuable? This is another bone of contention.

It's a complex subject.

For me, women must be given absolute control (is that the word?) over their bodies. The idea that all must be restricted because of a suspicion that some women might do things that are generally deemed wrong > this is not the right way to treat adults. Inncoent until proven guilty kind of thing > to restrict the rights of the bodily autonomy of all women because of an assumption around their "nature" > selfish, feckless etc is wrong.

In countries where abortion is more heavily restricted women and girls have a fucking awful time.

And abortions don't stop > they are performed illegally instead with all the risks associated. So you end up with not just the foetus destroyed, but a dead woman as well. Who may well have kids who are then left motherless etc.

It's a very callous thing to look at the life of a foetus as essentially more important than an already born living breathing woman with friends, a job, people who love her, kids, parents etc and so on. If her life is ruined (physical or mental health) or she dies due to being unable to obtain the reproductive healthcare that she needs, that is seen as, I don't know, what women are for or something, just one of those things, a fact of life. Natural, in a way that giving her the choice is not seen as, that's seen as interfering.

my daughter had a miscarriage at 10 weeks i actually removed the foetus as she didnt want to see it till ambulance man came afterseeiing how developed a foetus is even at this early stage i wouldnt like to think of a baby being aborted too far into the pregnancy unless it was for medical reasons..

Well if she doesn't discover being pregnant for more than 12 weeks then too bad? It's not just about her anymore.

Too bad? You miss the boat so you can have 28+ weeks of distress, risks to your physical and mental health and even your life because as a woman you are now on a par with a 12 week foetus that has no viability outside your body. And then you can go through however many hours of childbirth with further risk to your health and hand over the baby to somebody else potentially causing you life long trauma. And too bad if pregnancy kills you, leaves you permanently disabled, incontinent, suicidal, leaves your existing kids motherless. You are less important than a foetus now.

Well if she doesn't discover being pregnant for more than 12 weeks then too bad? It's not just about her anymore

Wow. So in my case having to wait until 14 weeks for a scan as they simply couldn’t fit me in is “just too bad”?

@TwistedStitch There needs to be a cut off limit, a woman at 30 weeks could also find out she's pregnant and go through the same situation, but yes too bad, you are pregnant and there's another person inside of you to consider.

I also like the idea that after 18 weeks it's only allowed for disabiltiy of the baby, not for trivial reasons like, oh I don't know, the mother is going to die.

Who said this? Most people support abortion to save the life of the mother but at later stages of pregnancy the baby can usually be delivered alive rather than aborted thereby preserving both lives.

@JacquesHammer
Perhaps because your system is so lax they do not try to find as early a date as possible but if a woman is 11 weeks here they will find her a date the next day or so because the hospital/doctor know the cut off week.

So MamaDane you are like surferjet upthread - you would condemn a women to forced birth, and if that woman then dies of complications in childbirth - and that does still happen! - you are OK with that.

There's a word for that - it's heartless.

I've had a MC at approximately 12 weeks. It was very painful and sad but I am absolutely furious that you can claim that what came out of me that day is more important than me or any other born, autonomous woman and our rights, health, and even our lives.

The person I know who had a late term abortion was one I met whilst we were in a refuge.

Her abusive ex was too devious for the police to be able to charge him and he would have used that child to control her forever.

Her life would have been hell and the child would have been used as a pawn.

Forcing her to be tied to that man forever would be barbaric.

I firmly believe as early as possible, as late as necessary. Women should be allowed to make their own choices about their own bodies.

Perhaps because your system is so lax they do not try to find as early a date as possible but if a woman is 11 weeks here they will find her a date the next day or so because the hospital/doctor know the cut off week

That was the earliest date possible. Due to an uncertain cycle we had no idea how pregnant I was.

That was a much wanted baby.

Now you’re really saying that for a woman who doesn’t want a pregnancy, 12 + 1 is “too bad”?

That’s revolting

@pointythings unless you live in a 3rd world country, then actual death from giving birth is incredibly rare.

@TwistedStitch I didn't say it's more important. I obviously said if there's a medical issue, like cancer, then a woman could terminate because her life does matter more. But the fetus' life also matters, so I think it would have to take a lot for an abortion, so late, to be acceptable.

I think 24 weeks is too late for non-medical reasons.

After this the woman should give the child up for adoption.

Women are not broodmares.

I do think that is murder.

Well the law disagrees with you as abortion does not fit the legal definition of murder.

MamaDane incredibly rare does not mean it never happens. This is basically the same question as the one about the death penalty: if one innocent person is executed, are you OK with that? If one woman forced to give birth against her will dies of complications, are you OK with that? If the answer is yes, you're heartless. Wrap yourself up comfortably in 'oh, it will be very rare' as much as you want, but that is the scenario you are supporting.

@JacquesHammer
You're entitled to your opinion.

The law in Denmark agrees with mine and I'm thankful for it.