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Shutdowns, military pullouts, and resignations: it’s Christmas and Trump thread 89

997 replies

TheClaws · 23/12/2018 07:09

It’s chaos in Trump’s world, more so than usual, with #TrumpResign trending in Twitter after a number of key debacles: the pull-out of US troops from Syria, the resignation of General Jim Mattis, and the shutdown of the government over Christmas due to bipartisan disagreement over wall funding. (Those are just 3 issues.) The next few weeks will be rocky.

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3442038-But-When-the-president-does-it-that-means-it-is-not-illegal-Trump-thread-LXXXVIII

Shutdowns, military pullouts, and resignations: it’s Christmas and Trump thread 89
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43
Justanotherlurker · 06/01/2019 20:50

And any intelligible comments on American Politics?

I'm still waiting for you to offer anything other than default into calling someone a "nazi/russian/troll" to be quite honest.

So far you have offered nothing..

TheNorthWestPawsage · 06/01/2019 20:51

Neither have you.

PerkingFaintly · 06/01/2019 20:51

Trump, whilst a shit show is doing nothing presedentially that others haven't done.

Again, this is demonstrably not true, certainly for recent US presidents.

Just off the top of my head, tax returns.

During the 2016 presidential campaign, Trump refused to release his tax returns, bucking a decades-long tradition. Every major party candidate for president since 1980 has released tax returns during the campaign.
www.factcheck.org/2018/11/the-presidents-tax-returns/

Lweji · 06/01/2019 20:51

Yes, what ARE the unbiased sources? I'd love to know.

Lweji · 06/01/2019 20:52

It's claig part 2, with a twist.

PerkingFaintly · 06/01/2019 20:55

you have ignored the side which also points to Russian bots being active in BLM and Pro Sanders shit

Hmm You're obviously paying significantly less attention than you claim, as this has been covered rather extensively on these threads.

I'm not sure why you are making that claim?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 06/01/2019 20:58

These threads have definitely discussed the russian trolls posting and stirring up with regards to: blm, Jill stein, Bernie sanders, trump, Brexit and engaging in both sides of culture wars and other issues to cause more division. It’s odd to assert that they haven’t.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 06/01/2019 20:59

Didn’t see your post perking!

Justanotherlurker · 06/01/2019 21:00

So what should we be reading then,

According to some I only read fox or RT so I'm obviously not in a position to say, but there are plenty of left/right political blogs who are against trump and also the ratcheting of IDPOLfrom the left, the left particularly highlighting the hypocrisy and false baseline of many of the arguments being made in bad faith, this thread has just become re signalling blue ticks in some self flagellation exercise.

Read back over some of these threads with the faux intelligence wrapped around linking of tweets and you will see its slowly turning into nothing more than an echo chamber that should be kept to some private facebook group.

Justanotherlurker · 06/01/2019 21:02

You're obviously paying significantly less attention than you claim, as this has been covered rather extensively on these threads.

No it hasn't, it had a brief sweeping under the carpet of "they want to sow division"

Talk about revisionism.

Justanotherlurker · 06/01/2019 21:04

Yes, what ARE the unbiased sources? I'd love to know.

Oh so you are apparently aware of biased sources...

Roussette · 06/01/2019 21:04

So what's your aim coming on here then JustAnother? How long have you lurked? Bear in mind some of us have been here from when Trump declared his candidacy... the threads have evolved and changed since Trump became POTUS. Not sure what your point is... apart from telling us all we're crap at this. Inform us .. if that's what you want..

PerkingFaintly · 06/01/2019 21:05

BTW, what we haven't done is allow the Russian trolls to paralyse discussion.

Part of the Russian disinformation strategy is not just to spread lies, but to create the false impression of equivalence and to make people distrust absolutely everything they hear.

So trolls support BLM, trolls support Donald Trump. We're supposed to throw up our hands and say, "So BLM is equivalent to Trump", and anyway everything is just an unknowable muddy shitshow, pass me a gin."

Well no. Trolls make it harder to work out who to trust and what is true. But in the end, Trump isn't the equivalent of everyone and everything. He can, and will, be judged on his own actions and words.

PerkingFaintly · 06/01/2019 21:05

According to some I only read fox or RT

And you repeat this lie again.

Roussette · 06/01/2019 21:07

According to some I only read fox or RT

To repeat, no one has said that on here

PerkingFaintly · 06/01/2019 21:07

Talk about revisionism.

Yes, talk about it. You're the one doing it. Right here, right now.

Roussette · 06/01/2019 21:09

you will see its slowly turning into nothing more than an echo chamber that should be kept to some private facebook group

Says who? apart from you

PerkingFaintly · 06/01/2019 21:12

Mm-hmm. You'd like us to shut up would you, Justanotherlurker?

For our own good, of course.

Or at least not speak in public.

This is all getting rather familiar...

TheNorthWestPawsage · 06/01/2019 21:16

Oh go on! Don't be shy - name some why don't you? justalurker

According to some I only read fox or RT so I'm obviously not in a position to say, but there are plenty of left/right political blogs who are against trump and also the ratcheting of IDPOLfrom the left, the left particularly highlighting the hypocrisy and false baseline of many of the arguments being made in bad faith, this thread has just become re signalling blue ticks in some self flagellation exercise.

PerkingFaintly · 06/01/2019 21:17

Meanwhile, back in the world.

Yes, Pain, I agree the "Trump shutdown" is pushing the Mattis letter out of the headlines, as well as the Sweeney resignation.

So again, works for 45...

Lweji · 06/01/2019 21:18

there are plenty of left/right political blogs who are against trump and also the ratcheting of IDPOLfrom the left, the left particularly highlighting the hypocrisy and false baseline of many of the arguments being made in bad faith

Illuminate us, please. I'd love to read those blogs.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 06/01/2019 22:08

My own position is that Trump first came to my attention in about 1980, when I regarded him as a seedy and probably dishonest real estate broker of some sort with dubious connections. I also noticed that he treated his wife disgustingly, and that he was well-hated for his unpleasant behaviour in Scotland. Oh, and that he was a consummate vulgarian whom I was glad I was not likely to have to meet.

Since he became president of the United States of America, he has done absolutely nothing to alter my existing opinion of him, and plenty to reinforce it; he also seems to be in the not-quite-early stages of some sort of mental disintegration or senility, unable to construct a complete sentence without fubbling it when he is talking and completely unable to distinguish fact from fiction in either his speech or his writing.

I get what amusement I can before this loonie blows up the planet as revenge because it doesn't love him the way he thinks that it ought to, and because his lies and illegalities are catching up with him and he may get punished for them by pointing my finger at him and saying "Look at the silly man." Unlike him, I can tell fact from fiction, and I can also tell when someone says one thing one day, its diametric and incompatible opposite the next, then goes back to the first again the day after that, and none of it has any factual basis. See his "the people who are getting no money because I have shut down the government support me /they are mostly democrats/they almost all support me" of recent days. He is on film and on tweet saying these things, sequentially; how is that altered by the media?

(Does this board have a dnftt policy at all?)

PerkingFaintly · 06/01/2019 22:58

Does this board have a dnftt policy at all

We-ell, sometimes we let them out for a little canter to show their paces. I mean, good to check occasionally just in case they're (even accidentally) expressing something worth exploring.

But after clearly deliberate mis-statements... Yeah, no, end of rope IMHO.

Gumpendorf · 06/01/2019 23:14

🙄

fact that quite a few on here are british being smug from the outside makes it even more ironic

Much as I just want to ignore lurker it's worth saying how much we have all gone out of our way to be respectful of the US viewpoint and be mindful of how much we don't know. And we can see the U.K. is moving in a similar direction so definitely not smug.

Meanwhile, back to real life and it's a useful point Perking made about the shutdown being a distraction. I remember there being a constitutional crisis in September? after the anonymous NYT op ed. It lasted about 24hours before something else pushed it down the news agenda.

Lweji · 06/01/2019 23:19

Nobody is smug on the outside of either the US or the UK (me, for example). Just worried. Or laughing alonside some natives.