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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think tube drivers are overpaid as most earn 60-70k and get free travel

444 replies

nickiredcar · 17/12/2018 10:04

Surely they are only paid so much because they run a monopoly and people have no choice. I think it's an argument against unions. Considering lots are semi automatic it does seem too high that they are now out earning pilots.

Apparently they are striking because one of their drivers was sacked for failing drugs tests at work three times Confused

OP posts:
ThatThingYouDo · 17/12/2018 11:49

abacucat I'm not very wrong in my opinion based on someones view who currently does the job, and has for many years. Perhaps you would feel differently once you have done the job, or possibly not.

Social workers should be paid more, absolutely. But what on earth does that have to do with tube drivers? We could keep on naming professions that have a more miserable time than the next, but there's no relevance to it with regards to the original post.

Kazzyhoward · 17/12/2018 11:49

I also agree they will be automated as soon as technology allows.

The technology already exists and is in use. There are some underground lines that are already automatic - the driver doesn't actually drive the train, they just press the "start" button (very simplistic but that's about the long and short of it). It's the union opposition that means a driver still has to sit at the front and other lines aren't yet automated to the same degree.

Original poster
nickiredcar · 17/12/2018 11:50

Yes agree they are very desirable jobs and hard to get. What all the "you apply then" people fail to miss.

Irronic they always go on about safety but are costing the economy 50million with their latest strike because they want someone that was caught three times drugged up at work to carry on driving trains Hmm

OP posts:
Original poster
nickiredcar · 17/12/2018 11:51

5 of the the 11 lines are automatic these days, the "driver" just opens and closes the doors.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/12/2018 11:51

I also agree they will be automated as soon as technology allows

So do I, but the drivers aren't going to give up their plush packages easily ... I dread to think of the carnage they'll unleash when automation starts being rolled out Hmm

treaclesoda · 17/12/2018 11:54

So dont give me the "people have nothing to fear from a strong union" crap. Unions can be corrupt too.

It was me who made that statement and actually as soon as I posted it I realised that I was wrong. You are quite right. Corrupt unions are very damaging.

I had made the post when I was thinking specifically of my own particular workplace experience, where initially the unions had decent negotiating power, and were respected by the employer. They didn't agitate and whip up trouble, and they didn't try to defend the indefensible when it came to the staff.

But yes, you're right. It's no good for anyone if unions are trying to prevent industries moving with the times, or defend the workshy. There is definitely a happy medium.

I posted in haste and deserved to be corrected.

ThatThingYouDo · 17/12/2018 11:54

nickiredcar Bullshit? I know very well how much he earns and it is £40,000. Why would I make it up? It's the truth. Also he's not entry level, he's been doing it for 5 years.

And yes approximately 2-3 suicides a year.
It was 2 this year and 3 the last.

Why are tube drivers being targeted on this thread, out of interest? Why not lawyers, accountants and bankers? Is it because tube drivers are considered to have an unskilled profession, so of course they should be paid peanuts?

abacucat · 17/12/2018 11:54

I support unions and support high wages. I don't want them to be paid less.
BUT getting a tube driver job is very very hard because they are so well paid. You already have to be working for TFL. I and most others can NOT apply for them as they are never externally advertised. And yes I would love the job. Not the best job in terms of unsocial hours, but I have done responsible shift work in crap conditions for way less money than tube drivers get. So yes I would do the job if I could get it. By the way, nearly all tube drivers are men.

BarbarianMum · 17/12/2018 11:54

You can't just "apply to become a tube driver" though can you Joey as the jobs aren't freely advertised.

abacucat · 17/12/2018 11:58

Thatthingyoudo The average lawyer salary in London is £67k according to glass door. They work long hours and have legal responsibilities.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/12/2018 11:59

5 of the the 11 lines are automatic these days

Good grief, is it really that many?? I knew one or two were, but when I thought of this being rolled out in a big way I hadn't realised it was already nearly half

So it seems the union intransigence I was expecting is already happening - or rather it isn't, since their demands to still have a "driver" on automated trains are being pandered to

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 17/12/2018 11:59

ThatThingYouDo, there are about 50 deaths a year, and about 3500 tube drivers. Your relative would be incredibly unfortunate to have 3 people kill themselves in front of his train each year (not quite winning the lottery chance, but similar to getting 5 numbers). The starting salary is £53k. It doesn't help to overstate the situation.

Original poster
nickiredcar · 17/12/2018 12:00

Must be part time to be on that, as the freedom of information request shows.

And of the 50 odd suicides a year and over 3000 drivers your family member has 2-3 each year. Yeah you sound like a source of accurate information.Grin

OP posts:
abacucat · 17/12/2018 12:01

So the average lawyer in London is probably paid about the same per hour as a tube driver.
I am actually appalled though that a tube driver who tests positive for a drug test is not instantly dismissed. In other responsible jobs testing drug positive would lead to instant dismissal.

ThatThingYouDo · 17/12/2018 12:01

abacucat Tube drivers are almost always men due to the fave they work on their own. Also my relative (I'll say actually it's my DH, I'm due a name change soon anyway) has had to deal on a regular basis getting aggressive drunk people off the tube so I don't think they would want women to be put in this situation especially on their own.

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 17/12/2018 12:01

And I do have to laugh when the counter argument is that we should just pay everyone else more. It would be great if we could afford to pay everyone 50k a year, and I'd love to hear how we could do that.

ExplodedPeach · 17/12/2018 12:02

Their pay is well above market rate, which is evidenced by the absolutely enormous number of applications they get whenever they publically advertise vacancies.

They are in the relatively unique position of having a huge amount of power to strike, because their strikes are enormously disruptive and inconvenient, but not actually life-or-death.I bet NHS staff would be better paid if they went on strike as much as tube staff do, but thankfully for the public (and unfortunately for them) they aren't willing to do that because of the number of people who would die in the process!

Original poster
nickiredcar · 17/12/2018 12:05

And I do have to laugh when the counter argument is that we should just pay everyone else more. It would be great if we could afford to pay everyone 50k a year, and I'd love to hear how we could do that.

Exactly. The real thing that should happen is house prices need to fall, alot. But hardly any home owner wants that to happen even if the economy and society would benefit.

Tube drivers much like the person with the DH who keeps spouting lies about wages and suicides here are just out of touch, they beleive what the union is telling them.

OP posts:
ThatThingYouDo · 17/12/2018 12:06

nickiredcar it's actually my DH so I think my information is accurate thanks.

He works full time. I'm also clear on the number of suicides as he had therapy after each one.

I don't know what to tell you, perhaps he works on a line that is popular for people wanting to commit suicide.

Also, regarding the pay, I would love him to get more!

Your aggression towards this profession is palpable, even over the Internet. Not sure what tube drivers have done to anger you so. No they don't do the hardest job in the world, but it's not brilliant either.

user1490465531 · 17/12/2018 12:06

Tube driver jobs are recruited internally as they are very sought after and yes they are way overpaid.
Compare them with bus drivers for example who also work unsociable shifts are responsible for a lot of passengers and have to deal with the school runs a nightmare in itself.
They earn a fraction of what a tube driver gets.

Chesneyhawkes1 · 17/12/2018 12:06

I'm a train driver. I'm in a union. I applied for this job knowing the salary and terms and conditions.

It's not a race to the bottom. Anyone can apply to be a train or tube driver.

And that salary is lazy reporting. Yes we have drivers who earn 80k plus, but that's not basic salary and involves a lot of overtime.

Butchyrestingface · 17/12/2018 12:07

Bus drivers, pilots and many other jobs have shifts and unsociable hours.

Surely that's an argument for those workers to be paid more?

There's something quite mean and unpleasant about this.

abacucat · 17/12/2018 12:07

Thatthingyoudo You do know many workers in night shelters are women? My mum did the night shift at one for years and was very low paid. It was a dry shelter and she regularly had to turn away drunk men by herself.
Many unsocial jobs are done by women. I worked in a children's home for London and ALL the unsocial hour shifts were done by women.
The reason tube drivers are virtually all men are to do with how hard it is to apply, which means that it is institutionally sexist recruiting practices.
I support them being paid high wages, but I don't agree with the bullshit reasons often given.

abacucat · 17/12/2018 12:09

Anyone can apply to be a train or tube driver.

No not true. As said many times you can only apply to be a tube driver internally, even if you have already done the job in another country.

greendale17 · 17/12/2018 12:11

I am actually appalled though that a tube driver who tests positive for a drug test is not instantly dismissed. In other responsible jobs testing drug positive would lead to instant dismissal.

^Me too

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