To think tube drivers are overpaid as most earn 60-70k and get free travel

[nickiredcar]

Surely they are only paid so much because they run a monopoly and people have no choice. I think it's an argument against unions. Considering lots are semi automatic it does seem too high that they are now out earning pilots.

Apparently they are striking because one of their drivers was sacked for failing drugs tests at work three times

They don't earn that much, it is their whole package which includes pension contributions etc.

Yes they earn a lot because they are unionised. Sounds good to me. They also earn a lot because they have thousands of lives in their hands.

The strikes are less good however and unnecessary.

They have a lot of responsibility though and get less than MPs who are definitely overpaid, duplicitous, self-serving idiots!

Is that you back from the dead Maggie?

It’s not a high wage for London. The problem isn’t that tube drivers are paid too much; it’s that most people are paid too little.

Surely it shows the benefit of unions. DH works for the tube (not a driver) and is well paid. I work for the Nhs and am not. I don’t resent the RMT but my own union and matyr colleagues working unpaid overtime who contribute to our lower pay.

I know a tube driver. He has had three people kill themselves jumping into a train he was driving and he's been in the job 5 years. It's a lonely, hard job in unideal conditions and while I wish nurses and police could earn as much, I don't blame them for using their negotiating power.

Moral of the tale; join a union and maintain solidarity with your colleagues and you'll be better remunerated.

I'm torn. On the one hand I have a friend who works on the London underground - has driven a tube herself (not with passengers) and yes it's an easy job. On the other hand I got the impression actually becoming a driver was the end of a long career paying your dues elsewhere - rather than something you just stroll in to.

I do think their union has disproportionate power since they have a monopoly and is self promoting rather than working in partnership with other agency. On the other hand I'd favour more rights for all workers rather than a race to the bottom where because some workers are on 0 hour contracts in terrible conditions that becomes the bar we aim for.

Germany has a good model for workers unions working in collaboration with large organisations for a fair outcome rather than doggedly pursuing their own interests in isolation.

"The problem isn’t that tube drivers are paid too much; it’s that most people are paid too little."

I agree with this.

If they're earning more because of being union members, then surely it's an argument for unions rather than against them?

You could apply that argument to any well paid job.

People hate tube drivers being well paid because they see it as a working class job.

I say good for them.

But it's not the power of the union, bus drivers have a union and arguably aharder job but get less pay.

Pilots fly a plane have way more training and responsibility (with all that fuel) but get less.

It only works if you have a union and a monopoly (or oligopoly more accurately I think).

Moral of the tale; join a union and maintain solidarity with your colleagues and you'll be better remunerated.

But that doesn't follow at all for obvious reasons. Not all workers hold the same power. Surely there should be a fairer way of ensuring better conditions for all workers.

You could apply if you like OP?

It’s the same when people moan about the public sector and gold plated pensions or whatever. It’s not a closed shop! You too can apply for a job.

Considering the job involves training, unsocial working hours and requires you to live somewhere expensive I don't think it's that unreasonable.

Gold plated pensions are a closed shop, they ended ages ago

It's not hard to see that tube drivers have a lot of power and are in a unique position.

There is a huge amount of responsibility in their hands. There is huge risk involved in the job. It anything I think they are underpaid!

I agree with the comment regarding pilots. They won't be on very much more and their role requires years more training, intelligence and expertise. I bet it doesn't take that long to train to be a train driver? Couple of years at the most?

Bus drivers, pilots and many other jobs have shifts and unsociable hours.

In the police after 10 years you would still not earn the starting wage of a tube driver (about 38k vs 50k from freedom of information requests). So that argument isn't valid.

But anybody can apply for a public sector role. If you read the DM comments they still rumble on about public sector jobs. There are thousands of jobs to apply for!

I don’t get your point OP. That’s what they can earn. It’s not going to change because a random person on Mumsnet thinks they earn too much.

I once worked in a huge organisation that had a strong union. Over the years the union became weaker because the company offered up bribes to staff so eg 'we'll pay each staff member £1000 on x date if the majority of staff agree to close the pension scheme to new entrants'. Instead of seeing through this, the majority of staff thought 'well, I'm already in the pension scheme, so I'll not be affected, I'll vote to close it and hopefully I'll get £1000 as a result'. And a couple more similar bribes over a few years.

Then new entrants saw how older staff had sold them out and how powerless the union had been to stop it, so they refused to join the union. And within about 5 years the union was effectively broken. And when that happened, the people who had initially thought they would be unaffected suddenly found that they had no protection any more if they were ill, that cost of living increases stopped and their salaries stagnated. Whilst the top management tripled their salaries.

Strong unions are a good thing for workers. The only people who need to fear them are those who wish to exploit workers.

But the generous pensions ended ages ago with public sector jobs. So it is a closed shop.

They provide a vital service and work in poor conditions. The very fact that tube strikes are so disruptive shows how important a job it is. So it’s right that they get a fair wage.

Other jobs paying too little isn’t a reason to underpay tube drivers.

Surely it shows the benefit of unions. DH works for the tube (not a driver) and is well paid. I work for the Nhs and am not. I don’t resent the RMT but my own union and matyr colleagues working unpaid overtime who contribute to our lower pay.

This. Don't complain about what tube drivers earn, join a union, start one or pressure your existing union to actually work for the best deal for you! Really annoys me when people complain about working conditions and pay, but won't bother joining a union or pushing their reps to get them a fair deal. There's still plenty money in the UK, we're a wealthy nation who could be paying people an awful lot more, but people believe all his crap about 'there's no money left' while some companies and individuals rake in the billions off our backs!

The problem isn’t that tube drivers are paid too much; it’s that most people are paid too little.

This

I don't think it's too much, especially when you take into account how damaging to health shift work is, and how much responsibility they have. They need to live close enough to work to be able to get there when public transport isn't running, so will be paying high housing costs and don't have the option of moving out to Chatham or somewhere.

If they're earning less than pilots, maybe pilots should retrain to become tube drivers. Let's not start the whole "race to the bottom" thing.