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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think tube drivers are overpaid as most earn 60-70k and get free travel

444 replies

nickiredcar · 17/12/2018 10:04

Surely they are only paid so much because they run a monopoly and people have no choice. I think it's an argument against unions. Considering lots are semi automatic it does seem too high that they are now out earning pilots.

Apparently they are striking because one of their drivers was sacked for failing drugs tests at work three times Confused

OP posts:
everythingisginandroses · 17/12/2018 11:13

Sure, workers' rights has nothing to do with politics, government or legislation. Sure, health and safety is just an excuse for laziness. Aye, right. Xmas Biscuit Xmas Biscuit Xmas Biscuit Xmas Biscuit Xmas Biscuit Xmas Biscuit

cuppycakey · 17/12/2018 11:13

I am aghast at the cavalier attitude some of you have to H&S on the tube.

It's a dangerous job and they have a huge responsibility. Pilots are also heavily unionised.

I think they are worth every penny. I wouldn't do that job for that salary.

YankOnTheShelf · 17/12/2018 11:13

The scandal is not that a tube driver is paid more than a nurse but that a nurse isn't paid as much as a tube driver.

I'm astonished how little nurses earn in the UK. It's about half of what they'd get in the US. The only explanation I can think of is that the NHS is essentially a monopoly employer.

Original poster
nickiredcar · 17/12/2018 11:13

In the UK, some unions have a publicly stated policy to overthrow the government - that's nothing to do with their own workers' rights - it's just purely political. In the UK, a lot of unions have a default position of opposing business management and won't even contemplate modernisation or redundancies even when it's clearly for the benefit of the business/organisation as a whole

This exactly! It's toxic.

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Sindragosan · 17/12/2018 11:14

I'm in a company with a strong union, good benefits and pay, and yet one failed drug test will result in dismissal (it's gross misconduct!) and no-one has ever thought to strike about it. No problem with tube drivers wages, but how is someone employed who's had more than one positive drug test? Do you really want a drugged up driver in charge of your journey to and from work?

GodrestyemerrySchadenfreud · 17/12/2018 11:15

Could that be because the government is determined to keep everybody at poverty level while they enrich themselves and their cronies?

everythingisginandroses · 17/12/2018 11:17

Wage so low they have to be topped up by the taxpayer via housing benefit and tax credits, workers unable to take time off when they are sick because they risk not being paid or getting the sack, workers in Amazon warehouses peeing in bottles because they're scared to take a loo break. That's toxic, not unions and decent wages Xmas Biscuit

BirthdayCakes · 17/12/2018 11:19

People hate tube drivers being well paid because they see it as a working class job

Exactly

merrymouse · 17/12/2018 11:20

They can play the health & safety card - they turn almost everything into a health & safety issue to get what they want.

Isn't H&S just as, if not more, relevant to teachers and nurses?

Tanith · 17/12/2018 11:23

"Apparently they are striking because one of their drivers was sacked for failing drugs tests at work three times"

Source, please. Because that's not what the unions are saying.

everythingisginandroses · 17/12/2018 11:24

"Don't you know there's a war on?" Asked James Naughtie on the Today programme during the 2nd Iraq war, re: industrial action on the tube.

"What war? The class war?" replied Bob Crow.

Best. Answer. Ever.

RIP.

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 17/12/2018 11:25

Plenty of industries have strong unions but are still relatively low paid. Why? Because not enough people would give a shit if they went on strike. It wouldn't matter how strong a union social workers (for example) had - striking like tube drivers do would get them nothing like the same pay settlement.

But tube drivers have the capacity to have a significant impact on a lot of people in a very short period of time. Their negotiating position has absolutely nothing to do with their skill level, responsibility or training (it only takes 22 weeks). This is my problem with striking - not that people shouldn't be able to, but that it only really works in certain industries where the impact is felt by a large number of people.

ThatThingYouDo · 17/12/2018 11:26

I have a relative who is a tube driver for the London underground. He earns £40,000 before tax.

He has people committing suicide in front of him at least 2-3 times a year.

His shifts are very anti social, he doesn't get to spend alot of time with his children, and very often misses out on family holidays, birthdays, school plays etc.

He gets holiday days allocated a week in advance, and cannot change them. He cannot request certain holiday days. And because his wife is a teacher they almost never have holidays together.

It doesn't sound great for £40,000 a year does it really??

BarbarianMum · 17/12/2018 11:27

I used to work for a local council paralysed by strong unions. It was grim. Lots and lots of people doing as little as possible (not my job) and often sweet fa (not an exaggeration) not every now and then but on a permanent basis. You did not cross the union reps or all hell broke loose. Service to the people of the borough was abysmal.

So dont give me the "people have nothing to fear from a strong union" crap. Unions can be corrupt too.

Teateaandmoretea · 17/12/2018 11:28

I think it is a horrible job.

Not sure about this though:
They provide a vital service and work in poor conditions. The very fact that tube strikes are so disruptive shows how important a job it is. So it’s right that they get a fair wage.

It is important until it is automated - I predict that isn't far off.

LucheroTena · 17/12/2018 11:30

I envy them their union power.

I’m a nurse, our unions are rubbish and nurses are conditioned / expected to be martyrs. This is why our pay is shit.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/12/2018 11:35

Reports vary, but actually it seems to be about 22 weeks Hmm

I agree that nobody should want a race to the bottom, but those praising the "strong unions" might consider the closed shop situation they've created where jobs can't be advertised externally so can only be applied for by those already working for TFL, along with the sort of practices they condone such as the drugged drivers already mentioned

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tube-driver-salary-holidays-working-conditions-a3982211.html

abacucat · 17/12/2018 11:37

Plenty of industries have strong unions but are still relatively low paid. Why? Because not enough people would give a shit if they went on strike. It wouldn't matter how strong a union social workers (for example) had - striking like tube drivers do would get them nothing like the same pay settlement.
Yes that is true

Thatthingyoudo There is enormous competition for tube driver jobs. I would start the job this afternoon if I could get it. You are very wrong to think it is not a desirable job. I am friends with a number of child protection social workers who get paid way way less than tube drivers and deal with heartbreaking situations every single day.

GabsAlot · 17/12/2018 11:41

55k isnt 2400 a month my dh brings home about 2.5 and is only on 42k

abacucat · 17/12/2018 11:42

Yes I know tube driver jobs can not be externally advertised. You have to work in other jobs first for TFL. As I said, those jobs are very hard to get precisely because they are very well paid for what they are.
I also agree they will be automated as soon as technology allows.

MrsPatmore · 17/12/2018 11:44

Save your vitriol for the bankers and politicians like Jacob Rees-Mogg who are completely self serving! They are overpaid!

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 17/12/2018 11:46

Why can't we do both MrsPatmore?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/12/2018 11:47

Sorry - I missed off the quote, but my last post was in response to the PP who thought tube driver training might take a couple of years

Original poster
nickiredcar · 17/12/2018 11:47

*He earns £40,000 before tax.

He has people committing suicide in front of him at least 2-3 times a year.*

Bullshit. The foi in the times says just the starting wage is higher than that. And statistically getting that many suicides means he's getting 80000% more than you would expect based on numbers of drivers and suicides a yearBiscuit

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Joey7t8 · 17/12/2018 11:49

If you’re envious of the salary of a tube driver and wouldn’t mind a bit of that yourself, then there’s a really simple solution: apply to become a tube driver.