Page 2 | To think this is the most outrageous, peak trans inducing thing ever??

agnurse · 17/12/2018 01:39

There is ONE documented case I'm aware of where a man did have a genuine menstrual cycle. His external genitalia were male, but he had both male AND female internal reproductive organs. (I believe both were fully functional as I believe he had fathered children. His urine turned bloody each month and he had abdominal pain. This is what triggered the investigation where it was discovered that he had both sets of parts.) He had the female organs removed.

But this is extremely rare. Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina, and only GIRLS menstruate as a rule.

HestiaParthenos · 17/12/2018 01:41

Idk, I've seen posters on mumsnet who thought transmen/boys didn't have periods. Apparently some people need to be told that.

It would do all those young people good to be told that their sex was not "assigned" to them at birth, but is just an observable fact that is not affected by how they feel about it, or even by what someone else says about it.

(This article explains it, using dinosaurs as example: convincingreasons.wordpress.com/2018/12/10/do-women-exist-the-science-of-sex-the-politics-of-gender-and-the-materialist-and-dialectical-thinking-needed-to-distinguish-the-two/)

HestiaParthenos · 17/12/2018 01:45

There is ONE documented case I'm aware of where a man did have a genuine menstrual cycle.

For that to happen, he must have been a chimera, i.e. have parts of a twin inside him.
And if indeed he didn't have a vagina, he wouldn't have profited at all from someone explaining to him how to handle a normal period. (I am not sure I believe that story, anyway.)

Ereshkigal · 17/12/2018 02:15

Idk, I've seen posters on mumsnet who thought transmen/boys didn't have periods. Apparently some people need to be told that.

Why do you think that is? It's often because of the obfuscatory language - people think "transmen/boys" are biologically male. As in men or boys with a transgender identity.

HestiaParthenos · 17/12/2018 02:24

There also seem to be kids who seriously think they can identify out of their biological sex.

But yes, people do get confused. Understandably. It is rather unintuitive that a person of the female sex be called a boy or man.

liqorice · 17/12/2018 02:51

We're all going to at some point end up having to explain to our children who are male that they wont actually have periods aren't we?

They're not going to understand that having a penis does in fact mean that you are certifiably male

Canibuildasnowman · 17/12/2018 06:53

Transboys can and do have periods. Not sure what the outrage is on here about that being acknowledged?

fawkesRedux · 17/12/2018 07:05

What does peak trans mean?

Raven88 · 17/12/2018 07:24

A person who is born female but identifying as trans or non-binary would have periods I don't see what the issue is here.

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 17/12/2018 07:37

If a transgirl with a penis decides to have sex how will she know how to prevent pregnancy in the person she's having sex with?

They need to be equally careful to make sure all the children with penises understand that if they find blood in their pants they need a doctor, not a sanitary towel.

jellyfrizz · 17/12/2018 09:11

Transboys can and do have periods. Not sure what the outrage is on here about that being acknowledged?

As long as the language is clear about it being 'trans boys' having the periods rather than 'boys' then I agree.

It's the fudging of sex and gender that will confuse children (& adults).

RatRolyPoly · 17/12/2018 09:34

What wrong with it? It says people of either GENDER can have periods. It says trans men and trans boys. They're hoping to reduce stigma surrounding menstruation. All true, all good things.

And David Davies seems to think women are all simpletons who struggle enough with the idea of leaking blood that we can't possibly wrap our tiny brains around the fact that a uterus will continue to do so even when it's in a trans man. Oh my god David, us ladies will be so confused!

He's a total knobber isn't he. Please tell me he's what you're all so upset about.

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 17/12/2018 09:53

It says people of either GENDER can have periods.

But New York recognised 37 genders last time I looked, a lot of people seem to switch genders as & when they feel like it & there are plenty of us who reject the entire misogynist concept. So what are we saying then - anybody can have periods? So why not just say biological females have them?

RatRolyPoly · 17/12/2018 10:02

But New York recognised 37 genders last time I looked, a lot of people seem to switch genders as & when they feel like it & there are plenty of us who reject the entire misogynist concept. So what are we saying then - anybody can have periods?

Christ, maybe Davies was right and it really is all that confusing. People of childbearing age with a uterus are likely to menstruate, regardless of gender identity.

They even give example language in the article, "women, girls and others who have periods".

There could be 5 million recognised genders and you could "reject" every one of them. Wouldn't change the fact that a trans man has periods.

Ereshkigal · 17/12/2018 10:12

Calling yourself a "trans man" doesn't change the reality of your female body, no.

IAmRubbishAtDIY · 17/12/2018 10:13

Maybe the confusion with trans boys having/not having periods is that some people are confused about the meaning. Obviously trans is transitioning from one to the other, but for a while I didn't know if a trans man is a woman who identifies as a man, or a man who is transitioning ie identifies as a woman. Like trans (to) man or trans (from) man. The word trans man could be either if you don't know, it's not immediately obvious.

HestiaParthenos · 17/12/2018 10:42

Couldn't, theoretically, a male person identify as trans boy? I mean, seeing as you can identify as any gender whatsoever ...

So, yeah. I am not sure it is allowed to say on mumsnet who has periods and who hasn't without using dehumanizing language like "females" that could just as well refer to animals.
Because women's rights are being eroded right under our noses.

What does peak trans mean?

I never read a definition, but from how it is used, I think it is reaching the point where you are fed up with all this bullshit and want to go back to normal use of language.
And back to common sense when it comes to not putting male rapists in women's prisons.

RatRolyPoly · 17/12/2018 10:48

I think it is reaching the point where you are fed up with all this bullshit

Naaah, it's the moment you go from thinking women's rights need not require trans people to be less than human or simply sinister, to mocking or frothing over anything with "trans/gender/identify with" in the title.

scoodgeladgers · 17/12/2018 12:00

WE adults all know what we know regarding personality types/genders and freedom of choice.
It's that this is children. Already having changes in their own bodies that they don't understand, are having another confusing notion to consider at an already impressionable and vulnerable time.

HestiaParthenos · 17/12/2018 12:07

Rat: Learn the difference between being treated as subhuman (look up some of the things men do to women if you want to know what it really looks like!) and not having your every whim and wish catered to.

Other people enforcing boundaries and not wanting you in their private spaces isn't oppression.

People not wanting to have sex with you is not oppression.

Really, it is not difficult to understand.

RatRolyPoly · 17/12/2018 12:25

Hestia you don't credit women with much intelligence do you. Is that the ingrained misogyny speaking? Of course I know the difference between people not wanting to have sex with you and oppression; duh. It's telling you'd assume I don't.

scoodge have a little Google of "personality" will you? It refers to the character of a person. What part of one's character is defined by being a man or a woman, if you please? What part of one's character is spoken of when we say we are an immigrant, or a local, or mixed race? Identity is not personality. HTH.

manicinsomniac · 17/12/2018 12:35

I don't really have a problem with this article actually - or at least not as much of a problem as I do with most of the trans obsessed stuff around at the moment.

It doesn't mention sex, it talks about gender. Personally, I think we'd be better off working towards a world where we didn't need a concept of gender and just biological sex was enough to determine who we are. But we're a long way from that and there are young people around at the moment who feel they want to present as the other gender.

Therefore there will be children who look like boys starting their periods. And their classmates need to understand that. The article doesn't say that children are being taught that the male sex can menstruate; just that boys who say their gender is female can and will menstruate.

Avegemitesandwich · 17/12/2018 12:54

scoodge have a little Google of "personality" will you? It refers to the character of a person. What part of one's character is defined by being a man or a woman, if you please? What part of one's character is spoken of when we say we are an immigrant, or a local, or mixed race? Identity is not personality. HTH.

I was born in the UK and am white, can I identify as a mixed race immigrant? Are those things you can 'identify as' or you just are?

You are male or female. That is an irrefutable fact about you that you can never change. Any other feeling around that is down to your personality.

And if you look up 'personality' online, the dictionary gives 'identity' as a synonym.

HestiaParthenos · 17/12/2018 13:57

Personally, I think we'd be better off working towards a world where we didn't need a concept of gender and just biological sex was enough to determine who we are.

Yes, we should get rid of gender, no, sex should not "determine who we are". Sex shouldn't "determine" anything. That's how we got to that whole gender nonsense in the first place. People ought to be able to define their own personalities without constructing gender roles around a simple fact like sex.

Therefore there will be children who look like boys starting their periods

No. There won't. There will be children, who look like girls, and may or may not "identify" as boys, starting their periods.

Young girls may think that cutting their hair short and not wearing pink clothes will make them look like boys, but once puberty starts, almost all of them will be clearly recognizable as girls. (And before that, they may well look like children. You wouldn't say a baby girl who doesn't have a bow glued to her head looks "like a boy" would you?)

manicinsomniac · 17/12/2018 14:13

Hestia - 'who we are' has nothing to do with personality. It is our genetic make up. So yes, sex is a huge part of determining who we are. It shouldn't determine how we behave, what we choose to do in life, how we feel about things etc. But who we are - yes. That can't and shouldn't be negotiable or changeable. I don't think it means much beyond being a biological fact. But that biological fact is important.

And of course there will be children who look like boys starting their periods. Trans children are not something I've come across yet but I teach many 9 - 12 year old girls who have started their periods. Boobs, hips etc don't necessarily come first. If a 10 or 11 year old girl cuts their hair and wears 'boy cut' tops and trousers they don't look noticeably different to a 10 or 11 year old boy. I'd say it's much easier for them to continue to look like a boy for much longer than it's possible for a boy to remain looking like a girl. Especially if they're naturally tall, slim and have a fairly 'straight up and down' figure. Which a lot of teens do.