A United Ireland

[poppiesallykatie]

Not a goady thread or to stir, but how many are against it or for it? Obviously many in NI want to part of the Republic, many in NI want to part of Great Britain, how do the British people feel about it?

Satsumaeater ROI experiences a massive boom in and around 2007, have you ever heard of the expression the Celtic tiger? ROI left NI behind ten years ago and NI has never had the investment in industry to attract people to live and work there. Wages are very poor compared to ROI.

If you're in your 40s or older and grew up in N Ireland it's a standing joke that we now cross the border to get to the good roads and infrastructure. Whereas when we were growing up people joked that even if the border weren't so heavily fortified you'd know anyway when you crossed it because of the potholes on the other side.

The road from Newry to Dublin is amazing these days. Whereas in the north we don't even have dual carriageway linking Belfast to Derry.

What treacle just said 100%

stop trying to separate them from the UK by stealth during Brexit.

The current set-up is ideal, where there's no border, and people just try to get along with their neighbours. But NI is already separated from Britain by the sea, and it's just a tiny area on the island of Ireland. How would you feel if in a few years' time the population of Birmingham who were of Pakistani origin announced that they weren't British, and wanted to be separate, citizens of Pakistan? The situation isn't wildly different - an influx of people from a different culture, with a different religion, who hold themselves apart from the natives and don't intermarry. The Plantation of Ulster was 400 years ago, it may be time for their descendants to accept that they're not living in Scotland any more?

I laughed out loud at the Irish not knowing our history.

I spend a month with 40 British people of various ages on a volunteer trip. Along with a Swiss person and an American. Without fail the Swiss and the American knew more of European affairs than the British. They were able to discuss aspects of history that wasn’t from their own country. Some of the British didn’t know where the borders of their own country was. Others asked did Ireland use Sterling too? Was Belfast in the North or “Southern Ireland”. They simply had no interest in either the Republic or in Norrhern Ireland. These were university educated people in their twenties. Those who had an idea about Northern Ireland had no idea how it came about and the history that led up to it

I don’t know any Irish person who isn’t aware of at least an idea of how our country came into being.

Pineapplepower it’s not “othering”. Northern Ireland is a separate country. It is not part of Ireland. That’s a basic fact and you should know that if you live in one of them??

I was talking about the people who identify as Irish up north. You are othering them when you (not specifically you but other posters) seem to think they are somehow not Irish because they live there. Well they are far more than me and I’ve lived here many years.

You are being very disingenuous when you say it would not be much different than merging with some other European country. You are very culturally similar even if you want to denegrate them as backwards. I mean, have you been to the countryside in ROI? Where is this “liberal, progressive, forward-thinking” Ireland I’m reading about? Surely not the Dublin I know (I’m being a typical snotty expat about it, but don’t think there’s not some truth in it)

You are being very disingenuous when you say it would not be much different than merging with some other European country.

Spain may as well unite with Portugal, too ...

How about Germany and Austria .....

Feck off Pineapple I'm sat in the arse of nowhere in the Wesht right now and I'm happy out with the liberalism of the people around me. I absolutely love the Ireland of 2018. I think its a privilege to live somewhere constantly striving to be better than before. Its exciting and occasionally even inspiring.

I wouldn't live anywhere else and I know of several people who emigrated years ago and now are actively making shapes to move back.

So yeah, on the ground, in the countryside, the difference to the grey days of the past is tangible and real.

Spain may as well unite with Portugal, too ...

Portugal has a population of 10 million, a bit different to NI's population of 1.8 million.

Until Brexit, everyone was happy with how things were between NI and Ireland. Now it's all up in the air again, with Brexiteers acting as if Ireland has manufactured a problem just to be difficult. I don't give a single thought to NI in my day-to-day life, but my blood starts boiling when I have to listen to stuff about how it isn't a colony, and they've all been there for 800 years, and Unionists are as Irish as the Irish (while beating a drum and shouting that they're British). This is what the GFA managed to smooth over, and what's now being dragged back to the surface.

Until Brexit, everyone was happy with how things were between NI and Ireland.

Until Brexit, everyone was happy with things full stop. No, we weren't living in paradise, but generally we were bumbling along just trying to survive another Tory government.

Until Brexit, everyone was happy with things full stop. No, we weren't living in paradise, but generally we were bumbling along just trying to survive another Tory government.

Except that this wasn't true of everyone, was it? Otherwise there wouldn't have been so many people voting to leave the EU, and by no means all of them were members or the Tory Party or UKIP. A lot of Labour supporters voted for Brexit.

I voted Remain, but I'm well aware that a lot of people weren't happy with the EU.

But @Lizzie48 , this thread is about NI. Ash for cash was obviously a big deal but as shown by the Referendum in NI, the vote for Brexit was well into the minority. Which means both Nationalists and Unionists must have favoured Remain. Wonder why ......
Actually I don't because it's obvious

I voted Remain, but I'm well aware that a lot of people weren't happy with the EU.

Really ? Even now, two years on, I have yet to hear a factual reason for wanting to leave. Loads of bollocks about what people thought, only it turns out they thought wrong.

And just for the record, as a Remainer I wasn't completely happy with the EU.

I've yet to hear a single reason why the EU was so bad which doesn't actually lead back to our own UK government and it's actions over the past 43 years. Possibly the anthem. And the flag.

But we are where we are, which is now discovering that for all their bluster and bollocks about "sovereignty" it seems in the name of Brexit the UK is to be torn apart, and something I never thought I'd see in my lifetime - the cessation of the Troubles - being put at risk so a few folk can pretend their bananas have been saved from a straightening.

Oh yes, NI did vote Remain, sorry. For very good reason, they could see the problem with the Irish border. (So many Brits had their heads in the sand about this problem.)

I think only the DUP voted for Brexit, again hardly surprising in their case.

Ever since the Act of Union in 1707 Scots have talked about breaking away again and even after the recent referendum the discussion about independence has not ended

ever since 1973 when the UK joined the common market some people have been banging on about what a bad decision it was. And if/when we leave the EU there will be plenty of British people who won't stop going on about wanting to rejoin.

So long as Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland remain separate countries there will always be talk of a unification. And if somehow unification happened there would always be talk of breaking away again.

Nation states do stay fixed forever.

Nation states do NOT stay fixed forever.

@Lizzie48 , the DUP voted against GFA. This is like Christmas come early for those wankers.

Nation states do stay fixed forever.

Does that apply to "England" ?

have you ever heard of the expression the Celtic tiger

Erm yes, funnily enough - MNers do like to think everyone else is thick don't they? And it was in full flow around then, since 2008, not so much. But NI (or at least Belfast) has had a lot of investment since the peace process. Just one example is the number of law firms which now have operations in Belfast.

So many Brits had their heads in the sand about this problem

I don't think Brits in GB realised, to be fair - I voted remain but not for that reason - I was clueless on that point.

You would have expected the vote to be far more conclusive in NI though, eg like Gibraltar or even Scotland.

Even now, two years on, I have yet to hear a factual reason for wanting to leave

The poor financial management, no audits. I can accept that as a reason though I can't claim the UK government's cash management is anything to aspire to.

The poor financial management, no audits.

I have to be honest, I have't read many Leavers cite that as a reason to leave. I stand to be corrected, but it didn't appear in my K-Tel "top 10 Brexiteer hits" album.

(Not that it's not a valid issue, though).

And when I was in NI the roads were definitely better there than over the border. But it was 14 years ago. Things change I know. 2 years ago the roads in Hampshire were considerably better than in Surrey. Not any more, not because I think Surrey is spending more money but because Hampshire is spending much less.

So many Brits had their heads in the sand about this problem

I certainly did think of it. I think it was more obvious to those of us who lived through the troubles. (I lived in London whilst the IRA were bombing there.) A lot of people on here wouldn't be old enough to remember those days so it wouldn't occur to them.

I mean, have you been to the countryside in ROI? Where is this “liberal, progressive, forward-thinking” Ireland I’m reading about?

Have you been to the countryside in ROI, Pineapple?

My ILs are way out west (next stop Canada; mountains and bogs) and in their seventies and they, and everyone around them, are all for the way the country is heading. I don't see anyone resisting change. Quite the opposite.

So many Brits had their heads in the sand about this problem

Considering it was quite prominently discussed before the vote, it doesn't paint "so many Brits" in a good light. A better - and more accurate - way to phrase it would be so many Brits choose to put their heads in the sand about this problem. Which makes them idiots to a certain degree. Not knowing is one thing. Not knowing, being told, and then carrying on as if you didn't know is another.

Just one example is the number of law firms which now have operations in Belfast.

That's because InvestNI has been selling Belfast across the world as a place where you can get highly qualified staff for next to no money. For as long as I can remember we've had more graduates than the rest of the UK and lower salaries. Much much lower for professional jobs. Qualified solicitors and accountants here often earn the sort of salaries that in other parts of the UK those people wouldn't get out of bed for. I have friends who do freelance work in various fields and they can hire themselves out in Bristol and Manchester for twice what they'd charge at home and still be half the price of what the firms over there would pay for a local contractor to do the work.

It's good for certain individuals but I'm not sure that it's ultimately all that good for the economy of N Ireland as a whole.