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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To say something about religious nativity play?

393 replies

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 12/12/2018 16:07

The DC go to a private day nursery. It doesn't have a religious affiliation. It was their Christmas play today. They did a loose version of the nativity and then at the end, there was a bit of recitation - "and that baby Jesus grew up to do amazing miracles. He died to save all the people in the world. Christians believe he came back from the dead and everyone who finds Jesus will be happy."

Dd who is under 4 is now asking "what does it mean, Jesus died?" And "should we go and look for Jesus?"

Aibu to mention to nursery management that this has resulted in some awkward conversations and maybe next year, they could choose something non-religious, bearing in mind lots of the families that use the nursery aren't believing Christians?

OP posts:
pallisers · 13/12/2018 00:55

I’d like to thank Malwoddy and pallisers for displaying true Christian understanding and compassion

What the hell? What did I say that deserved that nasty comment?

I disagreed with you - just that. it is permissible to disagree with someone and be a christian.

nocoolnamesleft · 13/12/2018 00:56

I was slightly surprised that they referenced the Easter story, until I thought about it a bit more. To be fair, his death is mentioned in quite a few carols, so there is precedent...

We three kings is blatant:

Myrrh is mine, its bitter perfume, breathes a life of gathering gloom, sorrowing, sighing, bleeding, dying, sealed in a stone cold tomb...

Hark the herald angels is more subtle:

Mild He lays His Glory by
Born that man no more may die
Born to raise the sons of earth
Born to give them second birth

The first Noel is probably between the two:

Then let us all with one accord
Sing praises to our heavenly Lord
That hath made heaven and earth of nought,
And with his blood mankind hath bought

The Holly and the Ivy is a bit more subtle, but references blood, thorns, and bitterness.

So there is an argument that some reference to the purpose of the birth is a not untraditional part of the Christmas story, though one that I suspect has lapsed in most nativities, so seems unusual for a non church related establishment.

pallisers · 13/12/2018 00:56

and christian understanding and compassion??? What thread do you think you are on. We are adults having a reasonable discussion about a nursery play.

catkind · 13/12/2018 01:05

My kids are Y2 and Y5 so we've had a good number of nativities, 7 now I think. It's perfectly possible to do a nice traditional nativity without adding "and now you should all go and find Jesus and be saved" or similar. Have the characters say to each other, in character, that a new king has been born. Show the audience the importance with the shepherds and kings and angels and whatsit. The story does it all for you and can still remain "just a story" for those that don't believe. You don't need to add out of role Christian moralising, fine in a church nativity, completely unnecessary in a multicultural nondenominational educational setting.

Of all the nativities my kids have been involved in, only one has been preachy in the way OP describes. Unfortunately someone decided it was a good idea to give decided atheist DD the most preachy lines. In a shocking victory of vanity over principle she stuck with it for the angel wings but there was some subtle eye rolling angelic turning of eyes to heavenGrin

Malwoddy · 13/12/2018 02:39

christian understanding and compassion
I'm not Christian and think I've shown the OP more compassion in here than most Confused

Racecardriver · 13/12/2018 02:44

A four year old really should be able to understand it. It’s not hard. Just explain it to her and move on.

IAmNotAWitch · 13/12/2018 03:25

Have a look at the word Christmas.

This isn't that hard.

Lisaturtle · 13/12/2018 03:50

To be fair it has stated that "this is what Christians believe" because it is a Christian nativity story.

Odd that you think the Nativity is the only time when your 4 year old will wonder about death. Use it as an opportunity to discuss? My 3 year old knows her grandfather died and most Disney films cover the theme.

NaughtToThreeSadOnions · 13/12/2018 04:42

Haven't read the thread but hang on what

You have no problem with your child being taught about other religions but you gave a problem with her being taught about christianity???? WHY its just another world religion

How to explain death in this context it was 2019 years ago im pretty sure unless your daughter believe that humans all have the same life expectancy of a time lord it wont be a shock that some one that was prehaps alive 2000 years ago died!!

You just go he lived a very long time ago so yes he died surely

Oakenbeach · 13/12/2018 06:19

As for the OPs comments about other religions not being covered at the nursery.... whether or not you are personally a Christian, culturally this country has a Christian heritage, and so (unless perhaps you lived in the heart of a multi-cultural big city) you’d expect more emphasis on Christmas than, say, Eid or Hannukah.

Puggles123 · 13/12/2018 06:22

This is really sad, Christmas is a Christian celebration- there is nothing wrong with mentioning Christianity at a nativity play. FFS I know it’s a country tradition regardless of religion now, but it isn’t actually meant to be based around turkey and presents.

headinhands · 13/12/2018 08:19

You have no problem with your child being taught about other religions but you gave a problem with her being taught about christianity???? WHY its just another world religion

My reading of the ops posts were that it was more about how Christian beliefs had been stated as facts. It does happen. I worked in a school. The teacher told a class that Jesus was the only person to ever come back from the dead. 🤦🏻‍♀️

headinhands · 13/12/2018 08:24

You can't selectively opt in or out of festivies that have a Religious route.

Yes you can. I love religious festivals. I'm atheist.

CaptainBrickbeard · 13/12/2018 08:32

If considering how to broach the topic of death sensitively with small children, the book No Matter What is lovely.

I’m not religious but I love the nativity. I’m really glad my children’s school have always done one.

xwhoiamx · 13/12/2018 08:41

I'm deeply athiest (if that makes any sense ha) and strongly believe religion should not be rammed down kids throats BUT even I don't think this is unreasonable. They presented it as 'Christians believe' not as truth. It's Christmas time and kids should know the origins of the holiday. However, they should also tell kids the actual, Pagan origins of the holiday too, but no one ever does.

xwhoiamx · 13/12/2018 08:42

Atheist. Not athiest, the most athy Grin

catkind · 13/12/2018 09:02

Point headinhands. As an atheist you can join in any religion's festivals as you don't believe in a deity to be offended. As long as the religion's adherents don't mind sharing.

However Christianity is a bit different in that it is imposed in many educational settings, unless we want to deprive our kids - for mine the nativity is their only drama in school that year. So it wouldn't hurt to handle the religious aspect a bit sensitively. Which is so easy with a nativity. As long as you don't say aloud the "this is the true story of Christmas amen" bit, everyone can decide in their heads whether they think it's true or just a nice traditional tale.

OutPinked · 13/12/2018 09:14

It’s a nativity. They are telling the story of Christmas, or at least the story Christians believe. It is story telling in the same way it would be should they do any other play. You are being ridiculous.

Original poster
JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 13/12/2018 09:41

I see this is still going!

Actually pallisers I was going to say thanks in particular for your comments as they are really thoughtful and compassionate.

catkind yes exactly. We were just told it was a Christmas play and please provide a sheep costume. Turned up and found it was a nativity, fine, not my cup of tea but quite sweet. Mary had to go for a wee halfway through and the wise men all screamed for their mummies and had to be taken offstage Xmas Grin typical toddler/preschool nativity I thought and was kinda getting into it, until they all started reciting Christians believe that if you find Jesus etc ..... it was all a bit indoctrination-y and I just found it odd.

Then later, DD was peering about saying worriedly "but where IS Jesus? Should we find him? It says look for him, doesn't it Mummy?" And "what does it mean he's dead?"

I think she has a vague idea about death, roughly that animals get poorly and lie down and don't move anymore, so the idea that Jesus was dead, but wasn't dead, and we had to find him was a bit confusing.

The one positive thing I have taken from this thread is having a talk aboit death. I have never "shielded" her from it but we generally take the line of, answer all their questions but don't ram stuff down their throats. Dd has just never specifically asked about death. I think I will buy Goodbye Mog in the New Year and read that with her as a way into it.

OP posts:
Onlyjoinedforthisthread · 13/12/2018 09:43

How on earth can you say you didn't know they were doing the nativity and it was a surprise to you?
Your child goes to nursery, you are invited to go to go and watch a play and you never once asked your child what play, what part they had or if they were doing any singing?
Do you ever ask your child what they do at nursery or even communicate with their key worker?

You are in the mumsnet top ten of unreasonable and that's saying something.

May I suggest you start communicating properly with your children and start teaching them about life.
The hypocracy if complaining that your husband religion forced upon him but then forcing your belief in your children to the extent that you don't even want them to know Christmas is about Christ.

Please resign from your role in education and find another job where your bias doesn't matter.

In case you hadn't grasped it by this point I think YABU as does nearly every other poster in this thread.

Philomensapie · 13/12/2018 10:12

You're lucky you were asked to provide a sheep costume. My DC have their Christmas concert on Tuesday and I still don't know if they need to bring anything specific. Their school couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery. Xmas Hmm

ChrisTheCat · 13/12/2018 10:27

Completely and utterly ridiculously U.

MarilynSlumroe · 13/12/2018 11:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

grimupnorth1 · 13/12/2018 11:40

@JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff Sorry people are being so harsh to you on this one!
If the nursery has no church affiliation, I would have a quiet word with the principal/manager/whoever. I don't think the issue is the death conversation though, that conversation was always going to happen. To me, the issue is the overtly Christian narrative of the nativity, my goddaughter's school and nursery do pantomimes for this very reason, there's no need to do a nativity. If they are being taught about Christian celebrations, I would ask they are also taught about Eid and Diwali etc

Xenia · 13/12/2018 13:18

In our bit of London most schools will cover all religions. There is a lot of reall interesting complex detail in hymns/carols and the bible which I learned an awful lot from, all kinds of things, complex vocabularly, words we might not have used at home so I found it all very educational and mind expanding over the trite santa clause is coming to town kind of thing. Even if you don't know what all the words mean when you're little they kind of seep into you and your vocabularly is extended.

Crib, manger - all kinds of new words.

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