To ask if you taught your children never to hit back in the playground?

[Toomanycookies]

Curious really.
I've always taught mine to not hit back but the ones do hit back seem to be left alone afterwards and this like mine seem to face problems throughout .

[DinoDave]

When little, I taught them not to fight back and to tell a teacher.

Now (ages 8 and 10 for the oldest) the message has changed to:

1. You NEVER instigate anything physical at all, for any reason.
   

1. If someone attacks, you try to block/restrain and walk away. Use your words to fight back, if you must. Then you tell either the teacher (ds2) or me or dh (ds1...because he’d rather die than be a snitch) and we’ll talk it out and decide together if school need to be told.
   

1. If you feel in danger or are blocked in and can’t get away from a physical attack, you kick, punch or pull hair or do whatever you have to do get away with no fear of punishment...dh and I will be on their side in this case, even if school aren’t.

[AleFailTrail]

I was always told defend myself. I had an odd name, unusual interests and never fitted in. The one time I ran they got a mate to trip me and that permanently damaged my kneecap. So I fought. Three times. One when a kid was stealing from my rucksack, one when a kid nicked my rewards chocolate from my pocket and held it over my head (a lot taller than me, so I gut punched her and took it back and walked away), and once when a boy I moved away from thrice stroked my leg. Gave him a bloody nose.
All these were secondary school. I didn’t fight back in primary and it led to a broken nose and the loss of the tip of my tongue.
The most important to me was the confidence I would not be punished if they instigated it, so I felt fine walloping the leg stroker.

[Troels]

I taught my kids to defend themselves. Never throw the first punch, you get one chance and one punch back, make it count. None have been bullied Ds number 2 only punched back once.
Dd is more forgiving, she stood up for a friend on the school bus who was slapped across the face two weeks ago, the bully then slapped Dd too. So Dd stood up, she's bigger than the bully, squared up to her and said, touch me again I'll flatten you I can see her doing it too Bully went red and has avoided her since. Bully's cousin told Dd that she was pleased she stood up to her, she's like that with everyone, even family.

[AnotherPidgey]

I'm happy for mine to defend themselves if walking away and telling a teacher is not the practical option. I'm happy for them to be the one to finish it, but not the one to start it. I do warn them that lashing back is most likely to result in being caught because they aren't checking their audience unlike the starter.

It's not about winning a competition of strength, it's about being strong and awkward enough not to be the easy target.

At secondary, some younger girls made the error of thinking I was an easy target. For a few weeks they tried making comments and I either came out with a witty and cutting remark or blanked them. One day at the bus stop, they upped their game and were trying to use my sports bag to push me down to the ground. Subtle. I unclipped the shoulder strap and let the hand straps drop into my hand and they fell. Bonus, the metal clasp swung round and cracked one on the nose.
They never went near me again.

DS1 lost his temper early in yR and lashed out which was dealt with. It may be a coincidence, but he never has had any aggro. He does martial arts so he learns a balance of mental and physical control.

[thesnapandfartisinfallible]

I'll teach mine what my dad told me. Don't start it but absolutely be prepared to finish it.

[NorthEndGal]

Mine are grown now, but I definitely taught them to fight back. Always, always, always defend yourself, and loved ones.

[LastOneDancing]

If someone hits you tell them loudly to STOP and tell someone.
If they hit you again, hit them back.

[CountFosco]

know how to throw a kick or a punch when necessary, than to have no experience of defending themselves at all when they're being raped in a dark ally or attacked in a nightclub

This is getting worryingly close to victim blaming. Freezing is a safety response to being raped, if you fight you will probably be killed.

And as for 'hit back harder', well that's all very well if you are big but e.g. I am 5'2" and 8 stone. However hard I hit a man I couldn't hit as hard as even a relatively short man, they have much greater upper body strength. A tall man could easily be twice my weight. The same is true for my children, they are the smallest children in their year. My 11 year old is 30cm/12" shorter than some of the other children in her year. Exactly how would hitting back help her? Or are short people a fair target in this violent world you're training your children for?

Now, lets think about what happens to adults. If you get assaulted you would report it to the police. If another country invades the UN would get involved. We live in a world where you talk to a higher anthority if attacked. You don't hit back harder (because that would be a disproportionate response and the courts and UN don't like that).

Violence begets violence and the only way to stop it is to not retaliate physically. I like the going crazy suggestion but a simple fuck off works wonders as well. You can have self belief and self confidence without resorting to violence.

[O819bridetob]

Always hit back. I never had the confidence to and was bulied so bad. My brother hit back and was never bullied again.

[MilkyCuppa]

Now, lets think about what happens to adults. If you get assaulted you would report it to the police. If another country invades the UN would get involved. We live in a world where you talk to a higher anthority if attacked.

Yep, that’s great for adults because the police can arrest and prosecute, and the UN can send troops or bomb the shit out of people. But what will a “higher authority” do if a child is attacked?

Nothing, that’s what. Teachers have no power to discipline child bullies. They can’t lay a finger on them. They can’t force them to attend detention. They can’t even make them leave the room. The bullies can’t be prosecuted. They can’t be kicked out of school. There’s literally nothing that any authority can do to punish them. And there’s nothing that you as the parent of a bullied child can do either.

But your child can do something. They can punch the bully in the face. And they’re the only one who can retaliate and get away with it. If your child doesn’t punch the bully there will be absolutely zero consequences for the bully and they will get away with it (and do it again).

[Cheerbear23]

pumper I get what you are saying but there’s a big difference between an accidental knock in a line and someone squaring up and punching my DS’ in the jaw. As I say I only advocate hitting back as a defence to stop it. My kids are clear on that.
I’m very happy my DS hit him back, like I said it was the only thing that worked. The other boy was a known bully who had been moved to my DS school as a ‘managed transfer?’. He knew from that time if he hit my DS again he would get a taste of the same. He moved on bullying someone else after that (eventually getting expelled).

[MrsTerryPratcett]

This is getting worryingly close to victim blaming. Freezing is a safety response to being raped, if you fight you will probably be killed.

I've read studies that haven't born this out. It depends on the attacker but generally fighting back doesn't result in a worse outcome.

You have very little control over whether you fight or not, however. Your instincts kick in. It has been observed that people who have experienced prior trauma tend towards freeze. People with less prior trauma tend towards fight and flight.

[badlydrawnperson]

I was taught not to retaliate and tell a teacher.

It's probably the source of a lot of the issues I have felt since - my schools were more like I imagine prison would be, where telling the teacher was regarded as gassing by the staff and kids and just made things worse.

Hitting the bullies back is (very sadly) a rite of passage for many and one I never took, but probably should have.

[badlydrawnperson]

gassing=grassing

[Sethis]

the only way to stop it is to not retaliate physically.

So the best way to stop someone grabbing you and punching you repeatedly and the kicking you when you fall over is to not fight back?

Good luck with that.

I do wonder how many times people advocating 'never retaliate' have been attacked, and how much bullying they suffered at school. I can only imagine the answer is 'not much'.

[Seniorcitizen1]

Hit first time tell them you are learning karate, second time karate them. For some reason never a third time

[Pumperthepumper]

So the best way to stop someone grabbing you and punching you repeatedly and the kicking you when you fall over is to not fight back?

Well, yes. The best thing to do here probably is ‘try to get away’ not ‘hit back twice as hard’. But it’s not so much the individual spur-of-the-moment reaction that I find strange, it’s that posters are actively teaching their children to hit back. Children who have not yet been hit are being told ‘if this happens then do this’ and then acting like it’s some magic solution. I’d hazard a guess that for every bully who backed down after one punch there’s a victim who couldn’t keep up the momentum of ‘hit back twice as hard’ and got the seven shades beaten out of them.

[Shitonthebloodything]

I teach my kids to hit back harder but they do that on the understanding that they will probably get a telling off too and they have to accept that it's an unfortunate consequence of standing up for themselves. If there were anything the teachers could do to prevent bullying then I wouldn't feel the need to encourage them to do this but I need to make sure that they're never an easy target.

[Sethis]

If you fight back and win, the bully stops.

If the bully beats the shit out of you, you have physical evidence to take to the teacher - bleeding nose, cut lip, torn clothes, whatever. The teacher is forced to take severe action. The bully might be forced to stop or even expelled.

You let them punch or kick you as often as they like, or you run away, you don't have any evidence to show the teacher, and they never stop. You'll get the same tomorrow. And the day after. And the day after. And the day after that. You start having anxiety and confidence issues which can spiral into mental health problems, no social life, and any number of other effects potentially culminating in suicide.

I'm happy teaching my kids to fight back, thanks.

[PortiaCastis]

Bullies thrive on the fact that others will not fight back

[Sethos]

I did not teach DD never to hit back, no.

I taught her that if someone hits her, to first use her words and her voice - firmly and loudly. That includes telling a teacher/adult.
If they hit her again, to warn them: 'If you hit me, I will hit you back'.
If it happens again, hit them back, and do it hard.

And I know that this is considered tantamount to child abuse in Mumsnet-land, but I did much the same with DD when she went through a phase of hitting (though I never hit her hard).

If she hit me, I told her "Don't hit me, I will not put up with it."
If she then hit me again... "If you hit me, I will hit you back."
If she hit me a third time, she got a smack.

[3WildOnes]

I doubt many bullies back down after being hit back, I bet most would see it as an invitation to absolutely batter the person they picked on in the first place. Knife crime is becoming more and more of a problem, what if the bully is carrying a knife. I really think it is such a dangerous thing to teach children. If my children ever found themselves in a situation where someone attacked them I hope they would get the fuck out of the situation as quickly as possible not hang around a fight.

[MaisyPops]

Always defend yourself.
Dont retaliate and hit back.

[Jimdandy]

Yes. I’ve taught mine never to hit first, but if someone hits you first then hit them back as hard as you can.

Usually I find they then go running to a teacher because they came off worse!!

[5fivestar]

I love your confidence in teachers and the police, I gave brothers 10 years younger than me. One has been attacked in broad daylight on a bus with CCTV with a hammer and no prosecution was brought. Because the police lost the hammer. The other has a bite mark on his leg that looks like an animal ... was a bloke actually tore his flesh.
Now sometimes running is the right thing to do. But those of you raising go and tell the teacher kids, where do you think this sudden ability to hit back the third time the bully kicks their head in will come from ?
I think self defence lessons should be compulsory, know how to put people with knives on their arse