About mother spoiling toddler classes

[backrolls]

More of a wwyd but I'm completely prepared to be told IABU! Sorry for the essay:

I live in quite a quiet area where lots of toddler groups and classes are run by volunteers throughout the week, and they are really lovely. There's a real mix too such as craft, music and even cooking and they are a great place for lonely mums to meet other people and get out of the house.

My young DS particularly likes a baby gym class that runs early on a Monday, which has circle time, songs, free play and a snack. The groups are really friendly and not cliquey in the slightest, so you are guaranteed a friendly welcome if you are having one of those days - everyone's stance is they have all been there!

Anyhow, there's a Mum who comes along to this group who is, quite frankly, awful to her DC who is no older than 2. She starts off ok but when the child doesn't want to join in, she shouts at them and saying they are 'naughty' and 'so irritating'. She usually spends the classes shouting at the DC, or playing on her phone during the free play which is supposed to be supervised by parents. She isn't physical, but very vocal. I've given her the benefit of the doubt and tried to show some kindness, bringing her a cup of tea and offering to help her DC navigate the play gym, and the staff have always been considerate. It's gotten to the point where the classes are so toxic in her presence people have stopped going along. When challenged she is awful, I guess people are a bit scared of her but have tried to intervene for her DC's sake and some have also tried to befriend the Mum.

Thing is, this Mum goes to every class going. She's recently signed up to a paid mini art and drama class my close friend runs and every week this mother is creating chaos where her DC just doesn't want to join in and is being physically forced to. My friend is very shy, and buying this franchise was a huge deal for her but this Mum is scaring off all her customers. It's block booking and this Mum has paid for the whole term up front, so is just as entitled to be there. My friend tried to gently suggest that if her child wasn't enjoying the classes she would be happy to give a refund, but the response was so aggressive it made her very anxious.

Am IBU where I think it's not fair that this Mum gets to ruin classes for other children and their parents? The free ones may be the only way she can get out of the house and I get it that she has every right to be there. Surely the same can't be said for paid classes though. WWYD and any advice for my friend?

It's really not developmentally appropriate to force a toddler to sit down and do an activity

This!

'Surely the welfare of the child is the issue here.'

Indeed. But instead it's the usual handwringing about the poor parent, and accusing the OP of being cliquey, nasty and the worst of all MN crimes, 'judgey'. Never mind the poor 2 year old who is being snarled at and yelled at by her mother

OP, it sounds like you have been kind and welcoming with this mum. I don't think you can do any more other than continue being kind to the child. I agree with other posters who say this is a safeguarding issue and your friend who runs the group needs to manage it. This poor 2 year old should not have to live like this

And some of you have very weird ideas about what constitutes a 'good parent'

Urgh mums net does love to ignore the general point in favour of defending any parent ever- regardless of how terrible they are.

OP- I totally understand, having a child doesn’t obligate you to get along with women you wouldn’t chose to befriend simply because you had your children in the same timeframe.

I also don’t find it hard to believe that you have tried to be friendly, I generally try to befriend anyone and everyone in these situations and start with a blank sheet- but I’m not a believer that just because you have similar age children you aren’t allowed to find a woman hostile, aggressive or rude.

Think the OP is getting a hard time here. I can’t believe that all the people commenting that the OP is cliquey would really be so tolerant of a person who makes it difficult for anyone else to enjoy the class. People are leaving the groups because she is so awful. Yes, maybe she hasn’t had a good upbringing and is finding parenting hard. But these groups are meant to be a way for people to relax and socialise when they’re probably exhausted by their DCs.
How can you do that if someone is yelling at their kid, refusing any help, and becoming aggressive when talked to about it? The OP HAS been friendly to her. How someone can leap on that and say it was OUT of DUTY? It’s more than I would have done as a tired mum.
Op I don’t know what to suggest really. I think the organisers need to really confront her, offer help with strategies, and if she doesn’t take it on board, she shouldn’t be able to attend. It’s not like her D.C. is getting much out of it if she is being yelled at all the time.

This kind of thing irritates me

I have been a Mum with anxiety, depression and PTSD, as well as physical health issues including chronic pain, going to mums groups for my DCs benefits when I'd rather be in bed and honestly, you don't know what's going on so please don't be so hasty to judge
You don't have to like her or be her friend, but she does have as much right to be there as you
So be tolerant

Wow a difficult one. In one way, I’d encourage this woman to attend as if she is very critical of her kids, you don’t want her at home doing this, you want the kids out having more positive input.

I agree I think the leader needs to get some quick training and input on how to manage this but keep this woman in. Make it more structured with ground rules - no negative language around the kids. She could get in another person temporarily who has some experience who can discreetly tackle the dynamics? Better than losing the franchise. Better for the kids. The mum might open her eyes to better interactions and that would be fantastic for the kids too.

suddenlypanicked
Oh wait I read the updates

What a very good idea. Perhaps try this in future before being abusive.

Yeah this is a toughie. I have spoken to my DC harshly in public and in private - very harshly and shouty when I have been at my wits end and they have been extra EXTRA and felt like dirt.

However because of this woman’s shite behaviour to her child then I would consider examining safeguarding options, starting with your friend with the franchise.

I get it completely that yes the woman is probably suffering but it’s awful for the child to be perpetually chivvied and chastised and it’s awful for everyone to have to see that. It takes some going to create a “toxic atmosphere”; this is not simply a matter of whether this woman’s face fits or not.

What is her child like? Active and engaged or withdrawn and timid?

OP, I suspect you're talking about my SIL. . It's awful because DNephew IS hard work. We can all see it. And he's only little but some kind of diagnosis down the line seems likely - he's incredibly challenging. However, as a result, SIL can be incredibly unpleasant to him and to be around and I can easily imagine her in a situation like this causing other people to be very uncomfortable. I do know that a big part of it is that she's mortally embarrassed by his behaviour. And it doesn't matter how many times I tell her that he's only little and that no one blames him (yes, he's challenging, but he's not doing it on purpose) she gets extremely frustrated and aggressive at times. But when she lets her guard down, it's clear that she's frustrated and just doesn't know what to do and won't listen to anyone who offers her advice

I think the group leader should address it if it's genuinely as bad as you describe. For your part, I'd just stick with what you've been doing - assure her that they all do it/ your DC did it etc and help her to clean up or to distract her DC when necessary.

The mum is a good mum by the way if she is getting out of the house .

That’s a bit of a generalisation isn’t it? If it were that easy to spot a bad parent I’m sure social services would have an easier job!

If she’s consistently shouting, snapping at and belittling her child then it doesn’t sound like she’s being a very good mum at the moment. If you’d witnessed a one off loss of temper then I’d say we’re all human, but that’s not what you’re describing.

It might be that she’s really struggling and in need of support, but I don’t know what else you can do as you seem to be attempting to offer her that! Or she might just not be a very nice person. It’s a tricky one.

Remember school? Remember when you'd be in a class with some awful people? Remember work? Remember that poohead colleague you had? Life is full of people who you won't like. It doesn't make it OK and I don't want to have a go at you as it sounds like you've been more than helpful and lovely towards her already.

It sounds like she doesn't want your help, she doesn't want to be friends. Leave her to it and be the better person playing with her kid.

She might have all sorts going on in her life right now. She might not.

I used to go to a toddler group on Thursdays with my eldest and I was on and off my phone because my flipping job share would contact me constantly. It stressed me out.

Sometimes at the park after work I have my phone out. I'm trying to solve the logistically nightmares of stepmothering and juggling all the activities of my kids and the shifts my husband works and so on and so on. I might be finding bus times to work out hat time we need to leave to eat before cricket practice. Sometimes I am scrolling instagram or editing a photo or reading my book via my kindle app. Sometimes my kids (who are 10 and 6) are totally fine playing with their friends and I'm killing time. Sometimes I don't want to talk with other parents because I'm tired and snappy and don't want to have to try to be nice and cheerful.

Your mate with the franchise can't just exclude a kid because their mum's not nice. That kid needs that group, needs to be included because if his mum's like that at home too, he needs positivity in his life.

One of the other posters had some solid suggestions for how to talk with her and deal with the situation as the class leader.

Can’t believe the posters thinking that the OP is being judgemental and harsh. It’s the child that comes first. And it sounds like the child is not being parented adequately. She might be having a hard time but it does sound like a potential safe guarding issue. I would encourage your friend to consider this and also your friend should develop a behaviour code/policy that allows her to refund if a customer is not complying

Am I reading a different thread to the rest of you???

This mother calls her toddler stupid, so irritating, etc for normal behaviour and this goes on continuously throughout the groups. If this was a man saying this to their wife it would be classed as verbal abuse, let alone a small child. Yet the OP is being judgemental and the mother is good for 'getting out of the house'? She should be sympathised with because being a mum is lonely?? I don't care how bloody lonely she is, she sounds vile treating a small child like that.

But did you consistently and persistently reprimand and chastise your toddler week in week out @Megmez?

She might have all sorts going on in her life right now.

Does that give her the excuse to be constantly yelling at her child, calling her stupid, irritating? If you had a husband going through a lot would you let him call you stupid and irritating for spilling water by accident? Why do you think it's okay to yell that at a small child then

Exactly, taco!

I agree too @taco but also, an outside group is going to be positive for her kids, who arguably need those toddler groups more than any other child. I’d definitely be trying to

• keep the mother going to those groups - excluding her marginalises those kids even more
• find a way or person to help create a more positive atmosphere e.g. ground rules, lots of structure, intervening and saying the kids are fine when she criticises. Parenting classes - they could get someone in for a spell as part of the group?
• getting advice and keeping an eye on this about safety overall

Bottom line these groups could be instrumental in turning things around for those kids. If handled better.

The mum is a good mum by the way if she is getting out of the house
So everything else is dismissed because she's 'out of the house'. Calling a toddler stupid and shouting at them over petty things is wrong, but hey ho she's out the house, it means she's a brilliant mum!

Does this also mean that mums that do not go out the house (no matter on the reason, no matter on their parenting skills at home) are bad mothers for not getting 'out the house'

If your friend is running a class for toddlers she should have had safeguarding training and she has a duty of care to report the emotional abuse that she is witnessing

^ this.

Although safeguarding is everyone's responsibility, you could contact social services yourself if the mum is swearing at the kid and being emotionally abusive. If she's like that in public, what's she like behind closed doors?

I think that if people are avoiding good groups because one mother is a bit vocal with her child and sometimes plays on her phone then they need to get a massive grip.

And whilst it is brave to set up a baby group business, difficult customers are part and package of running a business

Also, no women are obligated to be your friend, if they want to go to the group speak to no one and concentrate on their child that's their prerogative